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#118183 by Falk
Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:05 am
I was playing (or at least trying to) kissing the shadows from Children Of Bodom. Well I mean the first part, not the solo :wink: It has cool melodic riffs, so you're not just strumming big chords.

Anyway, when I pick I tend to mute the lower strings with the side of my thumb, as for pinch harmonics (except I'm not trying to make harmonics, I just mute). Is it wrong ?
I've played the song a few times and almost got a blister :roll:

On top of that, my picking speed is lame. When I say I play the song, I mean I played it at tempo 100, maybe 110, just a lil' faster and I fuck up everything.

I've been playing for a while now, like 3 years, though I'm really not playing regularly, sometimes I won't play for a few weeks. And I rarely spent a whole afternoon playing guitar, so it's maybe normal that my speed is so bad. But it's quite frustrating anyway (that's why I'm playing rock now :P ).

But what about the picking ? Am I wrong when muting the strings with my thumb ?
My bro' has a carved top guitar, and I'm really not comfortable on it, I need to rest my hand somewhere if I want to pick at least at half speed. I don't mean tha tmy hand is stuck to the guitar, but if it's not close to the strings/bridge, I lack precision and I'm gonna fuck my strumming, pick 2 strings instead of one and things like that.

Then I go to youtube and there are those guy who can play freaking fast while they've played only for one year... :( (or at least that's what they say)

#118184 by Greg Reason
Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:37 am
I've posted tons of excercises and shit here over the years...

The trick is to play shit really slowly. Really realy slowly. For as long as you can be bothered. I'm serious, just play scales really slowly with alternate picking (up and down picking) for hours and hors and hours.

Don't worry yourself with economy picking or sweep picking or anything like that for the time being. Don't be lazy yet, just get your standard alternate picking down sweet and then you can do what you want.

You should check out Steve Vai's ten hour work-out. You should be able to find it online with a bit of searching. The exersize I use the most is this one:

e------------------------------------------------------------------------
b------------------------------------------------------------------------
g------------------------------------------------------------------------
d--------------------------------------------------------------5---------
a-----------5-----------5-6---------5-6-7--------5-6-7-8-------6-7-8-
e-5-6-7-8-----6-7-8---------7-8------------8--------------------------etc

It's easy to figure this one, it just moves up each string one finger at a time. Alternate picking this will make you a gun. Use a metronome to keep you in time and set it fuckin sssslllllooooooowwww and repeat it over and over and over, going up and down with no breaks. That'll sort you out.

#118198 by Goat
Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:11 am
I have a similar problem. I started playing guitar way back with tabs of Metallica, Satriani and Vai. The problem was I immediately tried to play along with the song and as you can imagine, I was forcing it. I didn't have the discipline to practice slow meaningless patterns to lay the foundations of the technique. What inevitably happened was I was actually practicing BAD technique, y'know, forcing it as fast as I could, totally lacking precision, just being happy if it sounded moderately close to the original. I even performed Satriani's Summer Song live once. I could play it well enough. But technique wise, I hit a wall. No progress whatsoever. Now I am smarter, got a metronome, and started practicing as Greg mentioned: slow, patterns that cover my weak spots etc. For the right hand I couldn't recommend more John Petrucci's Rock Discipline. It doesn't matter if you don't like Dream Theater, John is one methodic man! From stretches and massages of the muscles involved in playing through separate left and right hand technique to sweep picking and other shit, it's all there. Vai's 10 hour exercise is of course the grand daddy of them all, but for starting it is great to see on vid what it looks like performing those little black dots. I've been doing this for a couple of months now and I'm getting better at it. The major point is: NO RUSH! SLOW! You won't be able to play whatever you want next month, maybe not even next year, but once you start getting into it, it won't matter. You'll evolve. Hint: if you hate meaningless patterns, try Yngwie's approach. Again, it doesn't matter if you like his style or not, his advice is: play the classics! Play Paganini, play Bach. I'm currently working on Paganini's Perpetuum Mobile, it's straight sixteens throughout the piece, beautiful melodies, no nonsense. Tab it, memorize it, then break it down into parts and figure out what parts are difficult for you, at what speed you can play them flawlessly. Then knock ten or even more bpms off your metronome and practice that. That's right: RIDICULOUSLY SLOW! Pay attention at how each note rings out, if the spacings between notes played on the same string and the notes played between two adjacent strings are THE SAME! Try it like this:

e ----------------------------------------
b ----5------------5--------------------
g -------7--9--7------7--9--7----------etc
d ----------------------------------------
a ---------------------------------------
e ----------------------------------------

The 5th fret on the b string represents the same note as the 9th on the g string, which makes this a trill pattern. So what you'll be trying to achieve is to make the difference in sound quality between 5b and 9g as little as possible, that is, reduce it to the difference in string quality. It's all about smooth transition from string to string. This is more difficult when you are playing slow and legato, because every note breaths, has it's own space. If you cover that well, it will stick with you when you will be playing faster, fingers will already be programmed that way, your playing will be clean. Keep the faith, don't get discouraged, it's a long term process, there are no short cuts.

I found an example of where discipline gets you in the long run in Petrucci himself. In his vid he admits he was having problems with alternate picking the one-string-at-a-time arpeggios. Not sweeping, alternate. He found out that the problem always occured when the pick was inside two strings, for example:

e------7-
b----8---
g--9-----
d u d

If you start with a down (d), the problem is between 8b on an upstroke (u)and 7e on a downstroke. To solve this, he proposes nothing but endless practice of that weak spot. And what he achieved with this simple boring advice, can be heard - for example - in Liquid Tension Experiment's Kindred Spirits, at app. 2:03. Here's the lick:

e-----------------------------------------------11-12-11-----11--------
b--------------------------12--------14----14------------14-----14-12-
g--------------12-----12-----12-14----14------------------------------
d--13-----13-----13-----------------------------------------------------
a------14-----------------------------------------------------------------
e--------------------------------------------------------------------------

All notes exept the last are sextuplets (six notes per beat), played alternately at around 120-130 bpm, starting with a downstroke. This lick is insane, I'm able to play it around 75 to 80 bpm now, that's just above half the speed. I had to start at 50 bpm! It's embarrasing, but the only way to go really. I'm sure when John started, he'd have similar problems with this lick, so what we have to do is walk the same long path. Good luck.
#118247 by djskrimp
Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:06 pm
Falk wrote:
On top of that, my picking speed is lame. When I say I play the song, I mean I played it at tempo 100, maybe 110, just a lil' faster and I fuck up everything.

I've been playing for a while now, like 3 years, though I'm really not playing regularly, sometimes I won't play for a few weeks. And I rarely spent a whole afternoon playing guitar, so it's maybe normal that my speed is so bad. But it's quite frustrating anyway (that's why I'm playing rock now :P ).



That is the key. If you aren't playing (practising) on a regular basis, you aren't reinforcing the muscle memory, so therefore your muscles almost have to "relearn" everything. And, seriously, never let someone else's talent or apparent abilities take away from what you've done. I'll never be able to play like Dev or Jeff Loomis, but I can play decently, and I write my own music. I'd love to play better, but there are so few guitar players that really pick it up that well. And, like Greg says, play slow. It's boring, it's tedious, but it pays MAD dividends in the end. And, since you use Children of Bodom in your example, Alexi Laiho even says that when he learns something new, he plays it slow for a bit and then ramps the speed up. (Some videos from "YOung Guitar" or something had him saying that.)

Don't give up...

#118255 by Der Meister
Fri Apr 07, 2006 4:29 pm
The good thing with my guitarplaying is the speed! 8) Don´t know if I´m especially good otherwise, but I´m a fast bastard with the guitar!

#118665 by -THe-Billy-
Thu Apr 13, 2006 9:01 am
METRONOME!!!! play everything slow, very slow, painfully slow... until you perfect the technique, then build speed. Its like a kid learning to walk, if they tried to run, they'd fall flat on their face.

#118759 by Falk
Fri Apr 14, 2006 6:54 pm
Thanks guys for all your answers and advices, though it looks like I don't play enough to really improve.
Maybe I started to play slower at a time, but I really feel like I hit a wall at some point. I was practicing those bodom licks, playing them not that fast (I guess I started at around 50 I think, quickly reached 90 and it took a bit of practice to reach 100), but from then, blah, I feel like I couldn't improve. Maybe bodom is just to hard, even if this "solo-riff" doesn't seem that hard. Maybe I just lack some basics :/ Or need a band to practice easier things that would sound cool anyway...

Any thought about my thumb touching the strings ?
It looks like many players keep the lower strings slightly muted with the hand, but if I do this I'm not feeling comfortable.
But once I read on a site a guitarist muting them with the thumb (and he was not a bad player^^), but in my case it's maybe that I'm trying to hard once again ?
Same goes for my bro's carved top guitar, I don't feel comfortable at all :(

#119924 by Goat
Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:38 am
Falk wrote:Any thought about my thumb touching the strings ?

Which thumb?

Falk wrote:It looks like many players keep the lower strings slightly muted with the hand, but if I do this I'm not feeling comfortable.

Are you reffering to muting the strings they are playing or muting the strings they are not playing to prevent them from ringing? Do you mean left hand or right hand muting? Then, do you pick from the wrist or from the elbow? The correct way is from the wrist, which makes palm muting easy, so ... is picking from the wrist you feel uncomfortable with?

Falk wrote:But once I read on a site a guitarist muting them with the thumb (and he was not a bad player^^), but in my case it's maybe that I'm trying to hard once again ?
Same goes for my bro's carved top guitar, I don't feel comfortable at all :(

Muting with the thumb? Again, which one?
Regardless, find the style and gear you are comfortable with, it's a total downer if you don't feel the guitar you are holding.

#119927 by sj_2150
Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:21 am
my upstroke is terrible. anybody got some tips?

#119937 by Biert
Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:15 am
sj_2150 wrote:my upstroke is terrible. anybody got some tips?

As usual, practice.

#121895 by -THe-Billy-
Thu May 18, 2006 3:52 am
3 note per string patterns

alternate pick so its DOWN up down, UP down up, DOWN up Down...

emphasize everyfirst of three notes.

then four notes per string, chromatics are perfect for it, start your exercises with a down then repeat the exercise with an up.

#122916 by FinnAtLondon
Wed May 31, 2006 10:53 am
check em paul gilbert videos! nowadays you find most on video.google.com or youtube.com

Everyone has to, laiho did too

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