had a great time together untied by their love of Dev.

LOL. was going to correct that typo to 'united', but may leave it as is. Judging by the pics it is the more apt word.

[Octillus]

had a great time together untied by their love of Dev.

LOL. was going to correct that typo to 'united', but may leave it as is. Judging by the pics it is the more apt word.

Honestly, that's how I felt.

And well said, Mr. Rhomboid.

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

AD50: Romans.
AD871: Danes.
AD1066: Normans.
AD1350: Yersinia pestis.
AD1685: French Huguenots.

Immigrants.
Some would argue that the post-WW2 immigration boom is the result of the British Empire reaping its colonial whirlwind, with origins in everything from African slavery to the British East India Company and the Raj to the Opium Wars to the Palestine Mandate.

Well, my dad's an immigrant; but I guess it's ok cause he doesn't look foreign?

[youtube]Crz13FKjp1I&feature=related[/youtube]

[JuZ]

^^

Perfect.

And Faffy, you are brilliant.

I'm thinking about Australia now. A total population about ⅓ of that of the UK, and a landmass over 31 times that of the UK as well, and this is the attitude of much of the public:



I should point out this mindset is of the more xenophobic types, small minded racists and Liberal politicians (I will never understand how the Liberal party in this country is the polar opposite to the definition of that word), and while there are more people who reject such a notion, it's still prevalent wherever you go.
I am a foreigner, by the way, and proud to merely be a resident, and not a citizen, working in a business populated by both, confounding certain customers who hear my accent and get red-faced that I'm some asshole who came in a plane and took their job.

I'm thinking about Australia now. A total population about ⅓ of that of the UK, and a landmass over 31 times that of the UK as well, and this is the attitude of much of the public:



I should point out this mindset is of the more xenophobic types, small minded racists and Liberal politicians (I will never understand how the Liberal party in this country is the polar opposite to the definition of that word), and while there are more people who reject such a notion, it's still prevalent wherever you go.
I am a foreigner, by the way, and proud to merely be a resident, and not a citizen, working in a business populated by both, confounding certain customers who hear my accent and get red-faced that I'm some asshole who came in a plane and took their job.

Speaking of Australia, my uncle and his family moved over there in 2008 (since he's a skilled worker and had a job lined up before he went) and now lives in Brisbane. He, my aunt (who's a teacher) and their three kids all managed to find jobs pretty much immediately and say they've never felt more welcome in the community there than they ever were here.

Such a shame there are such xenophobic and general idiots around who can't see that migrants more often than not are decent, hardworking people who are not bound by apathy as some resident folks. Eh, I'm now rambling and have forgotten what point I was supposed to be making.
One needs more tea! *sigh*

^Agreed. My friends and the people I work with don't care about the fact that I'm American (mixed results for the fact I'm also a nihilistic metalhead, but that's different ). As long as you make a positive impact, it shouldn't really matter where you are from.

As long as you make a positive impact, it shouldn't really matter where you are from.

Couldn't have said it better!

Maybe you're looking in the wrong places? Try a BNP or EDL rally. You'll find plenty of like-minded bigots there.

Of course, how stupid of me. I hold views that are different, so I am clearly automatically a working-class, skinhead, bigot, lunatic, with not a single rational thought in my head. I am naturally VERY, VERY bad, scary and evil. I should have known all along, thank you for that insight my friend. Please continue to contribute to the discussion with your well balanced take on democracy and freedom of speech.

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
AD50: Romans.
AD871: Danes.
AD1066: Normans.

All local people of similar stock and tribes, in comfortable numbers, which often had mutually intelligible languages back then. A lot of Romans were locally employed mercenaries. But perhaps most importantly of all, they arrived and earned their right to stay by right of conquest, fought and died for it. Not modern super-state-sponsored illegal immigration backed up by TV inspired fear, warped logic and political correctness.

I could bring up an entire list of reasons why such points are irrelevant, but ultimately; if you believe in the reality of races/cultures, and you are a nationalist and want to support them..... you seek to define and improve things... so it doesn't matter how much you could prove people did or didn't mix in antiquity, you take what you have and you say the glass is half full (as opposed to half empty).... and work from there. That's the positive perspective I work with.

But why is that a problem? Don't get me wrong... I am not a cultural relativist, but I don't see why change

is a bad thing. Things change. Time passes. People travel. Always have. Always will. Let's party.

Is that what you would have said to the Native Indians as we destroyed them? "Let's Party"? No, change is not always good
for everyone as we know.

It's a problem for all the reasons mentioned thus far. If you are happy for China to remain and look Chinese, India to look and sound Indian, by definition you also want Europe to look and sound European and western - less you become a hypocrite.

There has never been the type and scale of change we see today within the old world in the history of mankind, anywhere, full stop. Without world war 2 and the socio-political fallout, without planes, trains, automobiles and other brand new god-like technology it would simply not be humanly possible.

And keep in mind, the likes of China will never tolerate what we have been tolerating the last half century, they are never going to accept immigration on our scale - they are learning from all our mistakes at our expense. The Indians, Japanese are also content to remain homogeneous like many others, and would never pass laws that allowed too many immigrants in. They are benefiting from our decline on so many levels it's not true. And I wish them all the very best success with that.

Just because their are no armies or wars involved doesn't mean bad things are not happening to us. We are dieing, they are becoming.

Enoch Powell was right.

The vast majority actually contribute more to the local economy, culture and workforce...So who really
gives a shit? Not me.

Well that says it all. You don't care, and are apparently not even prepared to contemplate, so I won't say much.

You just admitted you're not interested in fixing our own culture, people, society and working to improve our local population. But you're more than happy to accept a cheap and easy cop-out; immigrants who will work harder for less money, who have no immediate benefit to our society, and take up jobs that would be happily and eagerly taken by local people.... IF they were educated and brought up properly. But you don't want to do that because you don't care for some reason. No one seems to care for our working class, I wonder why. Could it be because people truly believe in a tellytubby view of the world holding hands in disorganised splendour, or because it would be a bigger investment and no quick return?

That's okay though, no need to ponder. I will continue to think things through carefully. I will care for you.

Fuck that. That is beautiful. That is how it should be. The old world is dead. Welcome to the great
melting pot of the new world. Open your mind and your eyes, and look around. It is a beautiful fucking thing.

Simply put; you are wrong, just like we were wrong to do some of the things we did. And it always backfires, just like it has started to backfire on us now.

As the saying goes, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Time will prove me correct. But don't take my word for it though, listen to others... like John Cleese, a well renowned and respected bigoted English skinhead maniac;

[youtube]lF6zBJjvyOQ[/youtube]

Maybe you're looking in the wrong places? Try a BNP or EDL rally. You'll find plenty of like-minded bigots there.

Of course, how stupid of me. I hold views that are different, so I am clearly automatically a working-class, skinhead, bigot, lunatic, with not a single rational thought in my head. I am naturally VERY, VERY bad, scary and evil.

Where did working class come into this? But interesting that you have class prejudice as well. No-one mentioned skinhead or lunatic either. You are a self professed nationalist with a seclusionist agenda based on race. Those are the central planks of the BNP and EDL. You would find like ore like minds there than on a forum like this is what I was pointing out. If they are a bit below your class standing, try the UKIP. That's the same thing for middle class Daily Mail readers who are frightened of skinheads.

As for bad, scary and evil, that may be how the "Patriotic Nationalists" like to think of themselves, but to the rest of us they come across as naive, simplistic and rather pathetic to be honest. Did you not watch would-be Chancellor Griffin on Question Time last year?

I lived in Berlin during reunification and witnessed sections of the East German youth being stirred up by far-right agitators into blaming all their woes on immigrants. Saw a block of flats housing Turkish workers families burned down with children in. Had a Scottish friend of mine killed by curb-jumping after his accent betrayed him when telling someone the time in the street. Lost two teeth to the end of a scaffolding pole defending a black friend of mine (3rd generation English, despite his skin colour) in a club in Leipzig.

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

I should have known all along, thank you for that insight my friend.

You are welcome to the insights, but I am not your friend. I don't have racists as friends.

...not interested in fixing our own culture...

To me, a fundamental part of our culture is, as bookwyrm83 put it, "As long as you make a positive impact, it shouldn't really matter where you are from." What needs fixing in our culture, if anything, is the sort of paranoid xenophobia you're demonstrating on this thread. Fortunately, in my experience, it's rare.

Meanwhile, you're holding the Chinese up as a model to follow? Saying we should be more like them? Seriously?

Not in a million years.

When I go to London as an Englishman and actually have trouble finding another Englishman, now that is something to be sad about surely?

Try going there as a human being - you'll have no trouble finding other human beings.

You know what is sad though? A town or a village, where everyone's family has been there for umpteen generations, no-one leaving, no-one coming in, everything always being done the same way and nothing changing. No new ideas. Stagnation.

Mixing is good. Try it - you might like it.

[JuZ]

I'm thinking about Australia now. A total population about ⅓ of that of the UK, and a landmass over 31 times that of the UK as well, and this is the attitude of much of the public:



I should point out this mindset is of the more xenophobic types, small minded racists and Liberal politicians (I will never understand how the Liberal party in this country is the polar opposite to the definition of that word), and while there are more people who reject such a notion, it's still prevalent wherever you go.
I am a foreigner, by the way, and proud to merely be a resident, and not a citizen, working in a business populated by both, confounding certain customers who hear my accent and get red-faced that I'm some asshole who came in a plane and took their job.

My understanding is that it's to do with economic liberalism, ie belief in a free market economy and the forces of capitalism as the fundamental driving force of society. This is, in reality, what the Libs are about first and foremost and why they attach so much importance to what they consider "economic management". Of course they've attached themselves to a variety of what are now considered to be "conservative" policies and promote an agenda that is largely to the "right" of politics. But, in a society that is vastly more secular than the US (not that we are as God free as this heathen would like) I don't think that the right wing movement in the US is an appropriate analogy. This then makes things a little confusing for some Americans I've spoken to, with the word "liberal" being so intinsically linked to what's thought of as left-wing political ideology.

As for the OP, I have no problems with you expressing your views, even though I find much of what you say tedious. I eill point out though that this is very, very much the wrong tree to be barking up.