See, but you all are still mentioning specific people IN rap. That doesn't reflect on rap in it's entirety. Save for Alucard's statement about the use of actual instruments (which if you explore enough, you find some do [check the music recommendations thread], and those who don't really only do what electronic bands do: layer samples), all I've seen is statements not about rap itself, but about the influence of mainstream rap in society. Fine, white kids saying "yo dawg" are annoying. So are kids blaring Trivium through their headphones while wearing all black in 80 degree weather. And just as metal as music and as a genre transcends that stupid little fucker and is something more vast that even we can imagine, so does hip hop with those white kids. It strikes me as odd that you can see that in metal, yet in hip hop you attack it without knowing any better.

I could make a ten paragraph long post countering every counter you made to me, but I'll just leave it at this:

Rap and metal are THE SAME genre in every aspect save sound. The only difference is in their evolution; hip hop hasn't had the time to evolve as much as metal has. So I'm sorry if I came off as hostile, and I didn't mean to. You know I like and respect both of you and your opinions. But I've perceived (maybe I'm imagining it) this duality between rap and metal (predominantly upheld by the metal community) that it's either accept one as a legitimate genre (meaning more than just a few talented artists) or the other, and that there's some type of war between the two. One thing I'd like to see in life is the two coming together peacefully and bettering each other, since they both have so much to offer and whether they want to believe it or not, are awfully similar in their philosophies AND their ignorance. I've seen signs that it can happen. So a less aggressive, shortened version of my last post would be this:

Please explore the genre thoroughly before making judgments about it. It deserves as much of a chance as any other genre.

Phase: EXACTLY. And Zyprexa, despite those metal kids, has the ability to understand metal goes beyond that. I'm asking the same for hip hop.

I think we can all agree that not all rap/metal/rock/hip-hop is about killing/bitches/hoes/money and that a good portion of said genres have real meaning or no meaning at all(in metal's case more than anything, how many bands out there have a singer just to have one? haha)

It strikes me as odd that you can see that in metal, yet in hip hop you attack it without knowing any better.

Who are you saying that to, me or Alucard? I'm not being obnoxious, I genuinely don't know. I didn't say anything about white kids acting the maggot pretending to be black. I was just talking about the black people who embody the genre of rap, and how the society they live in is difficult to deal with.

Rap and metal are THE SAME genre in every aspect save sound.

And culture, and race, and the society which it is the norm. They're talking about societal difficulties in different settings (the preachy ones are anyway). I don't know any white metal lads who were brought up in a ghetto. Although correct me if I'm wrong. That impression just doesn't emanate from mainstream metal. And I think that contextual element is a fundamental difference between the two genres which has a significant impact on how it is viewed.

So I'm sorry if I came off as hostile, and I didn't mean to... there's some type of war between the two. One thing I'd like to see in life is the two coming together peacefully and bettering each other, since they both have so much to offer and whether they want to believe it or not, are awfully similar in their philosophies AND their ignorance. I've seen signs that it can happen. So a less aggressive, shortened version of my last post would be this:

Please explore the genre thoroughly before making judgments about it. It deserves as much of a chance as any other genre.

Phase: EXACTLY. And Zyprexa, despite those metal kids, has the ability to understand metal goes beyond that. I'm asking the same for hip hop.

I'm sorry if I'm a bit biased in the argument in favour of metal; I do not condone the practice of physical aggression in any context so I don't involve myself in the "war" you mentioned. I really have given rap a chance, I just abhor the lifestyle which seems to accompany the fame for rappers.* However, I have had my head kicked in by little (very big) shits at a pretty young age; presumably for the rap cause, in spite of the irony that I quite enjoy a lot of rap. They assumed my Emperor t-shirt was a statement against rap, as opposed to one promoting metal. So y'know. I'll have to ask to be given allowance if I believe that at least a portion of the people who listen to the genre are violent, preconceiving, ill-educated fucking scum who taint the genre unforgivably. And taint humanity, for that matter.

*I realise that mainstream metal-playing douchebags live on a bed of syringes and shoot people too. I hate them equally, if not more. Probably more because I have to argue with members of my peer group who haven't managed to diversify their tastes beyond Metallica. And it annoys the shit out of me that incredible people like our friend Devin are going unnoticed amidst the swine who dominate the surface of the metal spectrum.

Who are you saying that to, me or Alucard? I'm not being obnoxious, I genuinely don't know. I didn't say anything about white kids acting the maggot pretending to be black. I was just talking about the black people who embody the genre of rap, and how the society they live in is difficult to deal with.

It was directed at both of you, but more towards Alucard's comment about the white kids. But the fact that you said this:

I was just talking about the black people who embody the genre of rap, and how the society they live in is difficult to deal with.

says to me that you still believe hip hop HAS to embody only one element of society, and is not an all around diverse genre like the other ones. Which is the point that, above all this other stuff, I am arguing against.

And culture, and race, and the society which it is the norm. They're talking about societal difficulties in different settings (the preachy ones are anyway). I don't know any white metal lads who were brought up in a ghetto. Although correct me if I'm wrong. That impression just doesn't emanate from mainstream metal. And I think that contextual element is a fundamental difference between the two genres which has a significant impact on how it is viewed.

You are wrong. Very wrong. On all aspects of that statement. The culture is NOT that different, again, a point I'm arguing. Look at the philosophies. Nihilism, disregard of authority, horror, the obscene, psychological elements, nature, space/time, materialism, sex, drugs, violence, whatever. It's in both. Look at the violence, the belligerence, the feuds, the views from outside society, ect. The predominant race may be different, but I see no reason why that makes the music different, as people are people. And both genres are accessible to any race should they truly desire to pursue it as an art. As for the society part, as I said, metal has been around longer in a substantial form, and so has had more time to evolve. But they're following a very similar timeline.

I'm sorry if I'm a bit biased in the argument in favour of metal; I do not condone the practice of physical aggression in any context so I don't involve myself in the "war" you mentioned. I really have given rap a chance, I just abhor the lifestyle which seems to accompany the fame for rappers.* However, I have had my head kicked in by little (very big) shits at a pretty young age; presumably for the rap cause, in spite of the irony that I quite enjoy a lot of rap. They assumed my Emperor t-shirt was a statement against rap, as opposed to one promoting metal. So y'know. I'll have to ask to be given allowance if I believe that at least a portion of the people who listen to the genre are violent, preconceiving, ill-educated fucking scum who taint the genre unforgivably. And taint humanity, for that matter.

I never said there were NO violent people in hip hop, nor did I say the war was one sided. I'm sorry for the experience you went through, and trust me, I went through a few similar ones. It didn't leave me bitter about the genre, though. I saw rap as an art form above classification from a few people and experiences. Same with metal. You've obviously seen that in metal as well, but I'm sorry, I have trouble believing you've given rap a fair chance if you take these views on it. At no point do you ever HAVE to like a genre, but if you did give it a fair chance, you'd at least have a bit more respect for it.


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Well if you can see that about metal, then why not about hip hop? My point. Again. There are incredible people like Devin (not literally like Dev, but incredible people) in hip hop who are going unnoticed in hip hop as well.

I'm going to go ahead again and say my reason for not liking rap just to make it 100% clear.

It does nothing for me. I get no pleasure out of listening to it. The simple, repetitive beats with lack of instrumentation(not all rap) is something I get nothing out of. Only a few times have I heard a rap song where the beat changes in it, or the stupidly low rumbling bass hits substituted for an actual bass line.

The sad thing is, I can listen to ambient and enjoy it. I'm talking music with no beat, just synthesizers and sometimes guitar/vocals/bass.

Rap has, over time, grown to be one of my least favorite genres due to the fact that around where I live the only kind of rap that is embraced is the mainstream kind that everyone who actually enjoys rap seems to hate.

Basically what I'm saying is I despise mainstream music in general. Mainstream rock is worse than rap half the time. Bands like Saving Abel, Hinder, etc. all make me sick. I would honestly rather listen to mainstream rap than those bands.

As for the violence deal: I think violence of any kind related to music of any kind is absolutely absurd. There is no reason for it. Most music (hardcore for example, on the "metal" side of this) is meant to bring people together.

Another thing I despise about mainstream rap is the perpetuation of racial stereotypes, as I said before. One of my best friends, Alex, is a metal head. He is black. He does not like rap, but he respects true rap mostly because his brother writes/produces his own rap. Alex absolutely HATES when he sees other black people perpetuating racial stereotypes in public. I've heard him go on and on to everyone in a crowd of people he doesnt even know about why he hates when people keep doing things that end up going back to stereotyping. I really respect him for speaking out.

And that brings me to another reason why I dont like a lot of rap: Most of them dont even write their own shit! Sure a good portion of the "good" rappers out there write at least their own lyrics, but so damn many of them dont even write their owns beats/synths. Being a musician myself this is one of the biggest reasons I dislike it. I respect every guitarist/bassist/singer/drummer/songwriter out there who can actually play their instrument and write their own music. I know a damn good amount of relatively unknown and unknown rappers do all of their own production and I do respect that.

Want to know anything else or want me to clarify any points? By the way this isnt really directed at anyone, more so the whole topic at hand.

I respect all that, Alucard. I was simply saying not to embody that in ALL of rap. There are artists who write their own beats, play their own instruments, and write their own lyrics. Also rap is not the only genre in which the instruments are not actually played (Sample electronic and industrial). Also, many rock/metal and other genre artists have had their music written by other artists (I still remember you, Diane Warren!).

My point was not you should LIKE rap. It was that it should be respected as a genre equal to that of all others, perhaps explored more, and given time to evolve more, and maybe fade more from the public eye a bit.

Also, that's pretty cool about your friend. My friend Ricky is kind of the same way. He listens pretty much solely to mainstream rock and Japanese music, and is very vocal about his dislike of the stereotypes thrown against him. So all the power to him.

Most witty, smart, funny and all over fantastic lyrics I've heard in music came from rap bands. Can't say any of that about any metal band, usually I'm glad growlings are undecipherable. Shame there's no point about recommending you these bands since they're Polish and lyrics are exclusively in Polish, but I can plug my yt video of one of them playing instrumental bit

[youtube]Mt13gke7WMg[/youtube]

I think they're good enough.

Sure we have our share of dudes trying to act like they were black. Which is even funnier in this part of the world.

Wow BrunoN, those guys are really good - just based on that 25 second clip.

I was just talking about the black people who embody the genre of rap, and how the society they live in is difficult to deal with.

says to me that you still believe hip hop HAS to embody only one element of society, and is not an all around diverse genre like the other ones. Which is the point that, above all this other stuff, I am arguing against.

I never said it has to only represent one theme. I merely said it does. That's not my fault, I didn't do that. I'm sure there's a smattering of rappers talking about something that isn't the streets but they're not famous, presumably because other topics mustn't appeal to the niche they're playing to.

You are wrong. Very wrong. On all aspects of that statement. The culture is NOT that different, again, a point I'm arguing. Look at the philosophies. Nihilism, disregard of authority, horror, the obscene, psychological elements, nature, space/time, materialism, sex, drugs, violence, whatever. It's in both. Look at the violence, the belligerence, the feuds, the views from outside society, ect. The predominant race may be different, but I see no reason why that makes the music different, as people are people. And both genres are accessible to any race should they truly desire to pursue it as an art. As for the society part, as I said, metal has been around longer in a substantial form, and so has had more time to evolve. But they're following a very similar timeline.

Well that's how I've always viewed mainstream rap. I know white boys do rap too, I love several bands which have white people in them. But Eminem and a few other losers are the only ones who are actually in the spotlight. I agree that the philosophies are the same, but you were saying that the only difference is the TYPE of music, which is untrue. I don't get why you keep arguing these points when I'm agreeing with fundamentally everything you're saying, I just also acknowledge the grief which is associated with it. You have to make a distinction between Slayer and Borknagar, like - they're barely the same genre. I dunno why you'd refuse to do the same justice to an artist like Ne-yo and one like Boom Bip & Doseone (I dunno who you like, I'm a fan of these lads).

I have trouble believing you've given rap a fair chance if you take these views on it. At no point do you ever HAVE to like a genre, but if you did give it a fair chance, you'd at least have a bit more respect for it.

It sounds to me that you're giving it too fair of a chance. I love some elements of rap. I just don't unquestioningly love it like you appear to be telling me to do. I don't see why I should ignore the in-your-face negativity that is affiliated with the more popular rappers.

Well if you can see that about metal, then why not about hip hop? My point. Again. There are incredible people like Devin (not literally like Dev, but incredible people) in hip hop who are going unnoticed in hip hop as well.

I'm sure there are. I love cLOUDDEAD, Deep Puddle Dynamics, Dalek, Alias, Soul and the Skydiver (I said I wouldn't make a big list, just take my word that I do like some of that genre).

,,, Ok, so we agree(?).

I guess so.

Back on the un-awesome topic: negative asshole managers who want two more references on top of the four... no five you've already given them. I mean, surely for making sandwiches I won't need more credibility than somebody who can say that I prepared food before, somebody who will say that I've sold stuff before, somebody who will say that I'm competent with machinery and two different references to vouch for the fact that I'm responsible and good at dealing with people?! I don't even know if I want to work for somebody who is that anal - especially not in the middle of the night, and on minimum wage*.

I'm sure there are. I love cLOUDDEAD, Deep Puddle Dynamics, Dalek, Alias, Soul and the Skydiver (I said I wouldn't make a big list, just take my word that I do like some of that genre).

Sole and the Skyrider Band.

Whats un-awsome was, I went to the doctor, she said my horrible alien stomach aches were ulcers.

I then asked if my medication was giving me nightmares because they always start up when she ups the dose. She firmly told me "No, that's just part of your illness, stress etc". I looked it up and found a barrage of other confused people with the same side effect. I went back again and she insisted that I not trust internet people. Convinced that it was a sign that I needed to be further medicated she upped the dose yet again.
Then she gave me something that made me sleep like a rock. I was loopy allday everyday. I smacked into a snow bank and my ass fell in the snow...My mom was like whats wrong with you.

I'm tearing my hair out over this shit, but being a minor, I have little say in the matter. What should I do?
Ive edited this over and over trying to be as honest as possible. I can't pretend I'm not freaked...So please.
I'm really miffed.

I'm tearing my hair out over this shit, but being a minor, I have little say in the matter. What should I do?
Ive edited this over and over trying to be as honest as possible. I can't pretend I'm not freaked...So please.
I'm really miffed.

As a minor, you DO have a say. If you don't want to take medicine, no one can force you to.

Back on the un-awesome topic: negative asshole managers who want two more references on top of the four... no five you've already given them. I mean, surely for making sandwiches I won't need more credibility than somebody who can say that I prepared food before, somebody who will say that I've sold stuff before, somebody who will say that I'm competent with machinery and two different references to vouch for the fact that I'm responsible and good at dealing with people?! I don't even know if I want to work for somebody who is that anal - especially not in the middle of the night, and on minimum wage*.

Ugh, that might not be a great job to take. Chances are if they're that anal about the hiring process, they're that anal about work (Unless they're SAS).

Back on the un-awesome topic: negative asshole managers who want two more references on top of the four... no five you've already given them. I mean, surely for making sandwiches I won't need more credibility than somebody who can say that I prepared food before, somebody who will say that I've sold stuff before, somebody who will say that I'm competent with machinery and two different references to vouch for the fact that I'm responsible and good at dealing with people?! I don't even know if I want to work for somebody who is that anal - especially not in the middle of the night, and on minimum wage*.

Zyprexa, why the fuck do you need machinery skills for sandwiches?
Are you working a sandwich machine? I want one, that'd be awsome.
To fuckin wash dishes no one really cared about my job experience...And I didn't have any.
Then Safeway took me despite being fired from my first job.
Can I ask where you work?

As a minor, you DO have a say. If you don't want to take medicine, no one can force you to.

Thanks for the empowerment? LOL! but, being a belligerent fool Ive gone there before...and seeing how all my illnesses are physical(no mental issues lol)it wasn't fun. The insomnia, ulcers, rashes, and allergies, are not cool. lol I'm a stereotype sick nerd. I just want her to admit there are shitty side effects and to change that seroquel shit.
Yeah so this doesn't make sense.

so now I'm just going to vent a while.
I'm in the process of doing this IEP thing, this loopy shit doesn't help(they give it to me to make me sleep and to cease my nasty bleedy nail biting, lol I have no nails).

Too add more Un-awsomeness.

lol I gotta stay fresh in the head...
I'm doing my best to not get placed in special ED for my incredibly low math skills, I'm not exaggerating.
I took the math portion of my state high school proficiency exam four times. Four! and still didn't pass.

Since I'm average in all the other fields of the test and passed, they suggested an IEP. This will allow me to go to college anyway and make them put up with my math problems(getting extra time on tests and stuff). Or else they'll throw me back in high school and throw away the damn key! And in special ED no less! God I tried to test out of that shit for a reason.

Lol, I had to take a test where you have to draw inside the lines... .
Wow, fuck seroquel.
This is embarrassing Imma stop now.I'm an air conditioner. sorry.

Losing glasses. It's really annoying, cos they're mostly see through things so you'd easily miss them, especially considering you can't see shit cos you're essentially looking for your vision.

Ah those kind. I thought you meant the kind that holds drinks. I lost 2 of them in the past 3 days. Broke them with my bare hands. (It's the only way to do the dishes in a manly way)