Wow, I leave for like what, 8 hours and hell breaks loose.

Just trying to catch up with everyones drift here...

I think it is easy to create a song that will hit the 'mainstream,' if you know how to do it right. There is a kind of "music formula," in my personal opinion.
By the same hand though, I think that 'musical formula' goes through pretty much most songs in existance. You need something that will lure people in, for obvious reasons. I think it's more, how about you use that formula, that diverses music.

I also believe besides the mainstream, there's the 'alternative mainstream.' Which is a bit of an oxymoron and hard to explain, but I think I can sum it up in one word: Kerrang!

I think though, to a degree, Devin's work is more 'intelligent' than some things in 'mainstream' music. For example, this reggae person (I can't remember what hes called) who openly states that everyone should turn against homosexual people. I think if you take it down just lyrically at that point, Devin's words are wiser
By the same hand though, I know there are other artists out there who may write more 'intelligent' music than Devin. It's hard for me to explain, I'm not exactly acedemically gifted with music, I just work with how the music 'feels'. And before you get on my case, I don't listen to Devin and Devin only. I have a rather expansive musical taste. I may not like everything, but I'll listen to anything once.

I don't tend to listen to stuff in 'the mainstream' for that exact reason. I purposely go out to find songs, sounds, etc that to me sound individual. I'm not writing all mainstream off, there are a few good tracks, but I as a general whole, I keep away from it.

I do realise however, what may sound 'individual' to one person, may not sound individual to another. But anyway, I'm rambling.

It's a twisted web we weave.

Right, well, hopping back on the topic train...

I think that Devin has the potential to become main stream. Plenty of his songs are as good and better than alot of stuff I hear on the radio and the music televisons. (I am, of course, refering to rock stations. I some how doubt that Devin will ever be considered for a 'Now That's what I call music!' album. xD)

If he did become mainstream... I guess not much would change for me. I might meet a few more musicians who know his stuff and understand a bit more about my influences when I'm trying to express an idea (in a band context, of course. xD) or other people who just love to listen to it, but beyond that? Nothing would change for me. =D

Heehee, nicely hopped there Phase...

It's kinda cool to see though that fans here won't turn there back should such a thing happen. Unless of course he sold out.
It's like some Green Day documentary I was watching, (left overs you understand Although it was actually interesting...) was saying how, when Green Day went back to the place they did there first proper gig at, loads of people booed them off stage because they became mainstream. I suppose I can understand, because they changed a lot from what they were, but even still, I think I'd offer respect none the less...

I think the most Devin could ever get is Opeth level popularity, he's just too weird and unconfined for anything higher than that.

Perhaps I don't understand Townsend at all, but somehow I doubt that his music's most inspirational and driving forces come entirely from a disdain for big business (and neither do the forces that drive the mashing of styles that forms his own). And as far as pretension goes, you might consider some self-evaluation.

I wasn't talking about Devy there...

However if everything sounded like Townsend's work then it really wouldn't be that special now would it?

Well, I was using Dev as an example. The point is that the whole music-as-anti-corporatism bit doesn't so much apply to Dev, and so weird, intelligent, [REPLACE adjective] music is certainly possible without these lovely corporations. I just wasn't sure what you were getting at...

Isn't having the opinion that other opinions are childish in and of itself childish? It's not as if being "childish" is an objective matter. You're looking down on an alternative viewpoint just as are those you criticize.

This 'alternative' viewpoint you speak of is technically 'it's ok to look down on others that do not have the same taste as me'. Do I find that childish? Sure. Does finding that viewpoint in some meta way make me childish? I don't see it - I see it as just being objective that some people say 'potato', others say 'po-tato' and others refuse to eat anything that is not a pierogi.

For every person that cannot fathom someone appreciating Devy there will be a myriad, nay a plethora, of others that have the same opinion about something you think sucks.

I just find it weird that people think Devy is more 'intelligent' music than other stuff. Others will think the same thing about the Decembrists and their use of literary references...

Well, I was just pointing out the senselessness in denouncing one opinion with another. It is impossible to talk about right, wrong, mature, foolish, etc. without being biased in some sense (and hence subjective). In a nutshell, you've got a good point, and I'm glad you made it, but you could probably be a bit more successful in conveying it if you took a less presumptuous attitude. As far as I can tell, we agree, but we've been splitting some hairs.

I think, personally (I'll be careful--no offense or pejorative insinuations of any kind), that Dev has a very impressive understanding of music and sound in general, and that it shows in his work. To beat a dead horse, I find his music to be quite intelligent. Obviously, since I'm on this forum, I think that Dev is fucking brilliant.

But I also like the Decemberists' lyrical skills. Picaresque is a very entertaining album. Recommended to all ye who don't have a total distaste for indie.

As for Dev in the mainstream, I don't see it happening, but it'd be pretty cool if it did.

I think the most Devin could ever get is Opeth level popularity, he's just too weird and unconfined for anything higher than that.

^ this.

Sure, he can write some catchy ass stuff, but he's weird (he's "that dude off SYL" after all), he likes to throw swearwords into the prettiest songs, sings about completely abstract things and is a bit of a nerd who likes to have full control over what he is doing (I guess "clients" of major labels doesn't have such freedom as Devin in his own?).

I'm also joining voices saying writing hit song probably isn't that piece of cake, pop producers like Pharell Williams are enormously talented*). Despising them is kinda lame. "Stars" like Britney? Yeah, they're autotune, lipsynch driven turds, but producers behind their songs are the magicians that can turn pile of manure into diamonds, that's quite impressive if you ask me .

And yep, there's some formula in Dev's stuff, Open C tuning, tons of delays and distortion, layered vocals etc. That's mainly his personality, voice and ability to just assemble all these things together that makes him great. Not sure, if I'm using the right word, but I've heard it somewhere in similiar context: "integrity".

Also, have Bjork's take on musical snobbery

[youtube]8OWBfMcwewM[/youtube]


*) Though "writing" songs off stolen samples/melodies is lame (Timbaland).

Bjork speaks the truth.

I don't think writing a hit song is exactly easy, I just think there is a certain way to do it. You need that "catch" and yeah it can be hard to find, but once you found it, it gets over played to death
But then I like I said, you need that 'catch' in most music, otherwise who would listen?
Which I suppose then brings the argument, what makes it mainstream, if most music has that catch?
...

[Keeker]

'Mainstream' is ever-changing. Today's mainstream would probably have shocked the pants off somebody a few decades ago. All I know is that if I hear something I like, then I like it. Doesn't matter what it is or who else likes or dislikes it. Everyone's ear gets pleased by different things. Thank goodness.

Never underestimate what non-mainstream things can get to the top of the charts either. Sometimes they are just one-off fun oddities, sometimes they presage a change of style to a new 'mainstream.' Glam rock to disco to punk for example. Fashions come and go, get recycled and then go again.

We must be about due for madrigals to come back are we not?

We must be about due for madrigals to come back are we not?

Or The New Chanson De Geste Revolution. Imagine all these funny blokes in armors singing about heroic deeds...


...wait, that's power metal. Yeah, history is indeed circular.

All I know is that if I hear something I like, then I like it. Doesn't matter what it is or who else likes or dislikes it.

Bingo.

Just as long as none of that Avant-Gardé stuff makes a come back. My god, if it does, I will hit one of my teachers. He loves that stuff, and it will obviously be his fault, becuase I'm young and reckless!

/random.

Anyway, I feel that the time for Dev to get 'huge' in a mainstream sense is now gone. For an artist like him to gain mass commercial acceptance requires him to tour and promote his arse off, and since he shuns that shit completely now, there is no hope for it. I'm certain he is completely happy now making his music in his studio for his core fans, and not being concerned about the touring and media circus.
Which is good and bad for us, of course, since we get to bask in new and brilliant music from the great man, but never get to see him play it live!

[djskrimp]

I wish Dev had the fiscal latitude that "mainstream" popularity provides, so that he could just focus on the artistic side of his creations. IF there is any artist who I think would be able to maintain artistic integrity, it's Dev.

This thread is hefty! Interesting read though.

I just think that Dev is too free spirited and unpredictable for any label to want to promote the hell out of him, he does what he wants when he wants generally...and yeh its all been mentioned...

Also I sincerly hope this place doesn't turn into the Opeth forum, I can't stand that place anymore.

If the world was nice then Slow me down would be a number one hit.