Vampira is way too heavy to be a hit. Or, as most mainstream kids seem to think these days "Guitars? Eek!"


Amber, as long as it's that way around, I wouldn't mind. I'd be glad Dev got some recognition and probably loads of cash with it. And I'd just me smug "See, I knew it all along, I've been listening to this for ages ".

Although, the other way around, as in Dev selling out, I'm not sure how I'd like that. Really depends on the music, as long as it's good I'll be OK with it I guess. It'd be like Dev would be teaching all those big rock stars how it's supposed to be done
But I'd say chances of the former are bigger than chances of the latter

A lot of you are posting like a bunch of music snobs with your noses upturned. People, amazingly, have different interests than you (thank god). Instead of being preoccupied with what others like just search for what interests you or even better...create yourself.

Oh don't worry, it's easy to write a song with 'hit potential'. There are a couple of rules that you have to follow (about things like structure, melody, tempo) but if you follow those rules anyone can do it.

Cool, let's hear it maestro. Shouldn't take too long...

Dev's music goes WAY beyond the vast majority of average people's musical experience. It's too heavy, too deep, too intelligent, too epic. Most people these days like their entertainment (and especially music) in short, unintelligent, undemanding bursts, and so the Dev's stuff is way too much for them. And yes, I get the feeling he likes it this way....

Ok dude, you're real 'deep' and 'heavy' and 'complicated' and oh so intelligent for listening to Devin Townsend. Join Mensa and start a blog.

Dev's music goes WAY beyond the vast majority of average people's musical experience. It's too heavy, too deep, too intelligent, too epic. Most people these days like their entertainment (and especially music) in short, unintelligent, undemanding bursts, and so the Dev's stuff is way too much for them. And yes, I get the feeling he likes it this way....

Ok dude, you're real 'deep' and 'heavy' and 'complicated' and oh so intelligent for listening to Devin Townsend. Join Mensa and start a blog.

He's right though. Most people don't have the patience or dedication or interest or whatever it takes, to listen properly to music, maybe multiple times if you don't get it right away. And that is exactly what it takes to really appreciate Devin's (and many other artists') music, as I'm sure you've experienced. You wouldn't be here otherwise.



No need for a hostile attitude, we're all grown ups here (except Nathan), and we're capable of discussion (and fun ) on that level. So please, go flame yourself

Dev's music goes WAY beyond the vast majority of average people's musical experience. It's too heavy, too deep, too intelligent, too epic. Most people these days like their entertainment (and especially music) in short, unintelligent, undemanding bursts, and so the Dev's stuff is way too much for them. And yes, I get the feeling he likes it this way....

Ok dude, you're real 'deep' and 'heavy' and 'complicated' and oh so intelligent for listening to Devin Townsend. Join Mensa and start a blog.

He's right though. Most people don't have the patience or dedication or interest or whatever it takes, to listen properly to music, maybe multiple times if you don't get it right away. And that is exactly what it takes to really appreciate Devin's (and many other artists') music, as I'm sure you've experienced. You wouldn't be here otherwise.

What 'most people'? You're not inside the head of others. To others, Devin's music might sound like sped up nu-metal with a lot of reverb meanwhile the same people on the other side of the fence cannot fathom why others are not infatuated with Damien Rice or Tom Waits. It's the same side of the coin over and over again where people think they're 'above' others musically just because they listen to band x or genre y. It's ridiculous.

Dev's music goes WAY beyond the vast majority of average people's musical experience. It's too heavy, too deep, too intelligent, too epic. Most people these days like their entertainment (and especially music) in short, unintelligent, undemanding bursts, and so the Dev's stuff is way too much for them. And yes, I get the feeling he likes it this way....

Ok dude, you're real 'deep' and 'heavy' and 'complicated' and oh so intelligent for listening to Devin Townsend. Join Mensa and start a blog.

He's right though. Most people don't have the patience or dedication or interest or whatever it takes, to listen properly to music, maybe multiple times if you don't get it right away. And that is exactly what it takes to really appreciate Devin's (and many other artists') music, as I'm sure you've experienced. You wouldn't be here otherwise.

What 'most people'? You're not inside the head of others.

My experiences learns me that Biert is right.

Vampira is way too heavy to be a hit. Or, as most mainstream kids seem to think these days "Guitars? Eek!"

I think guitars aren't doing as poorly as you think, at the moment. But I do know where you're coming from. There are plenty of mainstream acts or Top 40 bands that have guitars...the main problem being that they don't actually utilize the guitars. A lot of the current famous bands follow the formula of "play 3 to 4 power chords to make a chorus, 2 or 3 more power chords for the verses, maybe throw in an uninspired bridge there or a small fill here" and thats it.

But then take a band such as Coheed & Cambria, that has become very popular over the years, who do utilize not only guitars but all their instruments intelligently. Like 'em or not, they know how write a song that is not only catchy and radio-ready, but intriguing to the deciphering and picky musician. Plus, they have a quality that many bands sadly lack...they take arrangements/fills/solos/transitions during their live shows and make some minor but effective changes, where most other bands would just play it exactly how it sounds on the album. They have fun with it (plus having Chris Pennie on drums is probably one of the best things that ever happened to the band).

Then there is also the involvement of the Guitar Hero/Rock Band games, which have made the guitar cool again (albeit its a plastic one ). There is plenty of butt rock on those games, but then they managed to sneak in some tunes from decent/above average musicians, such as Eric Johnson, Extreme, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc.

The guitar isn't so much at a state of "Eek!" as it is at a state of "Hmm...interesting!"

Or, how you say, I could just fook off. (Just trying it on...)

A lot of you are posting like a bunch of music snobs with your noses upturned. People, amazingly, have different interests than you (thank god). Instead of being preoccupied with what others like just search for what interests you or even better...create yourself.

Well, you've got a good point. It's only too bad that it doesn't justify your attitude.

I don't see the other side of the coin as awesome most of the time, but I don't dismiss it, either. I've found quite a bit of music entertaining that I never expected to even remotely enjoy. The fact that people don't have as varied tastes as you presumably do (I get the sense you go to Berklee and are somewhat eclectic) doesn't automatically insinuate musical bigotry.

The purpose of this thread, as I understand it, was simply to create a "what if" scenario in which "mainstream" tastes shifted to accommodate Dev's work--a pure hypothetical. It's not saying anything positive or negative about one side or the other. That having been said, this is a forum for discussion, not an exercise in idealistic open-mindedness. Be careful where you put your pedestal.

And music? Well, it's just entertainment, folks.

A lot of you are posting like a bunch of music snobs with your noses upturned. People, amazingly, have different interests than you (thank god). Instead of being preoccupied with what others like just search for what interests you or even better...create yourself.

Well, you've got a good point. It's only too bad that it doesn't justify your attitude.

I don't see the other side of the coin as awesome most of the time, but I don't dismiss it, either. I've found quite a bit of music entertaining that I never expected to even remotely enjoy. The fact that people don't have as varied tastes as you presumably do (I get the sense you go to Berklee and are somewhat eclectic) doesn't automatically insinuate musical bigotry.

I'm wouldn't say I'm too open minded as far as music goes but to assume anybody that doesn't listen to DT is somehow musically inferior to 'you' is rather immature (I mean 'you' in general). No, I don't go to Berklee - I briefly considered it though...

The purpose of this thread, as I understand it, was simply to create a "what if" scenario in which "mainstream" tastes shifted to accommodate Dev's work--a pure hypothetical. It's not saying anything positive or negative about one side or the other. That having been said, this is a forum for discussion, not an exercise in idealistic open-mindedness. Be careful where you put your pedestal.

Regardless of the purpose it's mostly turned into 'I can't believe so and so can't enjoy Ocean Machine! I almost punched him geez *continues playing counterstrike in basement*'

A lot of you are posting like a bunch of music snobs with your noses upturned. People, amazingly, have different interests than you (thank god). Instead of being preoccupied with what others like just search for what interests you or even better...create yourself.

Well, you've got a good point. It's only too bad that it doesn't justify your attitude.

I don't see the other side of the coin as awesome most of the time, but I don't dismiss it, either. I've found quite a bit of music entertaining that I never expected to even remotely enjoy. The fact that people don't have as varied tastes as you presumably do (I get the sense you go to Berklee and are somewhat eclectic) doesn't automatically insinuate musical bigotry.

I'm wouldn't say I'm too open minded as far as music goes but to assume anybody that doesn't listen to DT is somehow musically inferior to 'you' is rather immature (I mean 'you' in general). No, I don't go to Berklee - I briefly considered it though...

Well, I don't know if there really is such a thing as "too" open-minded. Influences can come from everything.

Sorry about the Berklee assumption--I took a guess, since your "location" field is filled with Boston and you seem to like music. I would've loved to have gone to Berklee, but there's just no way I could afford it. I ended up pursuing physics as a career and music as an aside. A big aside, mind you.

I don't think we're trying to say anyone's inferior for liking some other genre. I could be wrong, of course. Mostly, I think we're poking fun at the "trend" music that focuses on something entirely opposite from musicality. In a sense, it's a backlash at the corporatism of the popular music industry and the drones that eat it up, and not the music itself. Music as a fad, rather than an art form.

Which is fine, if that's what you enjoy (general "you").

The purpose of this thread, as I understand it, was simply to create a "what if" scenario in which "mainstream" tastes shifted to accommodate Dev's work--a pure hypothetical. It's not saying anything positive or negative about one side or the other. That having been said, this is a forum for discussion, not an exercise in idealistic open-mindedness. Be careful where you put your pedestal.

Regardless of the purpose it's mostly turned into 'I can't believe so and so can't enjoy Ocean Machine! I almost punched him geez *continues playing counterstrike in basement*'

I thought you would agree with him. After all, didn't you say that we should all be a bit more open-minded? I think he was frustrated at the fact that his friend wouldn't even give the music a shot and dismissed it immediately, not just that he didn't like Ocean Machine.

Besides, I know I've got a bit of an emotional attachment to Dev's music, and so I'm a little defensive of it. I could see why he'd be irritated.

I'm wouldn't say I'm too open minded as far as music goes but to assume anybody that doesn't listen to DT is somehow musically inferior to 'you' is rather immature (I mean 'you' in general). No, I don't go to Berklee - I briefly considered it though...

Ah there we have it! No-one said that, really. What Roddy meant was that music like Devins, and supposedly lots of music that lots of people here like to listen to, has some more to it than the mainstream stuff.
Listen to a song on the radio twice, and you know the song. Listen to a Devin Townsend/Opeth/Tool/Dream Theater/Porcupine Tree/Oceansize (plug!)/<your preference here> album 100 times and you'll still discover new things. Listen to it in a different mood and find a new meaning. Feel a new emotion, whatever floats your boat.

This music has some more depth to it, it's more 'intelligent' than mainstream stuff if you will. And to get to that, it takes some digging, some intelligence. Be it musical intelligence or general intelligence. This doesn't mean that people who don't like Dev are 'dumb', or vice versa. There's a thing called 'taste' that means that 'smart' people may not like it. And if you think 'dumb' people can't like it, that's a pretty dumb thing to think which makes you not like Devin Townsend which is a paradox and therefore not true (yay maths!)!




Oh and I've never heard Coheed And Cambria on the radio here (which is kind of how I'd define 'mainstream') and don't expect it anytime soon either.

And good point about Guitar Hero! I like how some of my friends are starting to dig Metallica, Slayer, Iron Maiden and That One DragonForce Song because they've played it over and over (because they FAILED over and over ) on Guitar Hero

I don't think we're trying to say anyone's inferior for liking some other genre. I could be wrong, of course. Mostly, I think we're poking fun at the "trend" music that focuses on something entirely opposite from musicality. In a sense, it's a backlash at the corporatism of the popular music industry and the drones that eat it up, and not the music itself. Music as a fad, rather than an art form.

Which is fine, if that's what you enjoy (general "you").

It seems a lot of the posting in this particular thread is about the 'inferiority' of those that do not possess the cognitive fortitude to appreciate Devy - that, coupled with Biert's note that it's incredibly easy to write 'hit' material just reminds me of pretentious hipsters whining about 'corporatism' despite the fact that the music they like wouldn't exist unless it had corporations to distance itself from.

I thought you would agree with him. After all, didn't you say that we should all be a bit more open-minded? I think he was frustrated at the fact that his friend wouldn't even give the music a shot and dismissed it immediately, not just that he didn't like Ocean Machine.

Besides, I know I've got a bit of an emotional attachment to Dev's music, and so I'm a little defensive of it. I could see why he'd be irritated.

I didn't say people should be more open-minded to music they normally don't like (although they should!) but rather that while some may look down on others for not being into Devy there's a complete flip side where someone will scoff at anybody that doesn't gush over Neutral Milk Hotel or whatever indie band du jour is floating around. Both views are childish.

I'm wouldn't say I'm too open minded as far as music goes but to assume anybody that doesn't listen to DT is somehow musically inferior to 'you' is rather immature (I mean 'you' in general). No, I don't go to Berklee - I briefly considered it though...

Ah there we have it! No-one said that, really. What Roddy meant was that music like Devins, and supposedly lots of music that lots of people here like to listen to, has some more to it than the mainstream stuff.

This is only opinion - having 'more' is different to other people. I don't think a normal reaction is:

I tell you i nearly punched someone recently concenring Dev.

Listen to a song on the radio twice, and you know the song. Listen to a Devin Townsend/Opeth/Tool/Dream Theater/Porcupine Tree/Oceansize (plug!)/<your preference here> album 100 times and you'll still discover new things. Listen to it in a different mood and find a new meaning. Feel a new emotion, whatever floats your boat.

Again, one's own emotional/personal attachment to a song cannot be conveyed by how many layers it has.

This music has some more depth to it, it's more 'intelligent' than mainstream stuff if you will. And to get to that, it takes some digging, some intelligence. Be it musical intelligence or general intelligence. This doesn't mean that people who don't like Dev are 'dumb', or vice versa.

How is it more 'intelligent'? I can assure you a lot of thought goes into those trivial stupid songs you hear on the radio. Regardless of whether you believe or not constructing a working earworm takes a lot of talent and skill regardless of who is behind the mic.

There's a thing called 'taste' that means that 'smart' people may not like it. And if you think 'dumb' people can't like it, that's a pretty dumb thing to think which makes you not like Devin Townsend which is a paradox and therefore not true (yay maths!)!

This is just a bunch of verbal diarrhea.

I don't think we're trying to say anyone's inferior for liking some other genre. I could be wrong, of course. Mostly, I think we're poking fun at the "trend" music that focuses on something entirely opposite from musicality. In a sense, it's a backlash at the corporatism of the popular music industry and the drones that eat it up, and not the music itself. Music as a fad, rather than an art form.

Which is fine, if that's what you enjoy (general "you").

It seems a lot of the posting in this particular thread is about the 'inferiority' of those that do not possess the cognitive fortitude to appreciate Devy - that, coupled with Biert's note that it's incredibly easy to write 'hit' material just reminds me of pretentious hipsters whining about 'corporatism' despite the fact that the music they like wouldn't exist unless it had corporations to distance itself from.

Well, that's quite a cop-out, and even a non-argument. There's certainly no definitive way for me to say "this music would have existed, regardless of the existence of corporatism in the music industry." On the converse, it doesn't make your point any more correct, since it's a moot point to begin with. Perhaps I don't understand Townsend at all, but somehow I doubt that his music's most inspirational and driving forces come entirely from a disdain for big business (and neither do the forces that drive the mashing of styles that forms his own). And as far as pretension goes, you might consider some self-evaluation.

I thought you would agree with him. After all, didn't you say that we should all be a bit more open-minded? I think he was frustrated at the fact that his friend wouldn't even give the music a shot and dismissed it immediately, not just that he didn't like Ocean Machine.

Besides, I know I've got a bit of an emotional attachment to Dev's music, and so I'm a little defensive of it. I could see why he'd be irritated.

I didn't say people should be more open-minded to music they normally don't like (although they should!) but rather that while some may look down on others for not being into Devy there's a complete flip side where someone will scoff at anybody that doesn't gush over Neutral Milk Hotel or whatever indie band du jour is floating around. Both views are childish.

Well, I was using the word "say" a bit liberally, as in imply. Particulars aside, I agree. One shouldn't look down on alternate musical preferences. But this isn't terribly pragmatic.

Isn't having the opinion that other opinions are childish in and of itself childish? It's not as if being "childish" is an objective matter. You're looking down on an alternative viewpoint just as are those you criticize.

I'd like to continue our discussion, but unfortunately, I've got to run. Be back in a day or so.

Perhaps I don't understand Townsend at all, but somehow I doubt that his music's most inspirational and driving forces come entirely from a disdain for big business (and neither do the forces that drive the mashing of styles that forms his own). And as far as pretension goes, you might consider some self-evaluation.

I wasn't talking about Devy there...

However if everything sounded like Townsend's work then it really wouldn't be that special now would it?

Isn't having the opinion that other opinions are childish in and of itself childish? It's not as if being "childish" is an objective matter. You're looking down on an alternative viewpoint just as are those you criticize.

This 'alternative' viewpoint you speak of is technically 'it's ok to look down on others that do not have the same taste as me'. Do I find that childish? Sure. Does finding that viewpoint in some meta way make me childish? I don't see it - I see it as just being objective that some people say 'potato', others say 'po-tato' and others refuse to eat anything that is not a pierogi.

For every person that cannot fathom someone appreciating Devy there will be a myriad, nay a plethora, of others that have the same opinion about something you think sucks.

I just find it weird that people think Devy is more 'intelligent' music than other stuff. Others will think the same thing about the Decembrists and their use of literary references...

Internet is serious business


Joking aside, damnuandurdog is right, it's just a shame that he's acting like a contentious idiot.