[JuZ]

Hey gurp, I really enjoyed reading what you had to say. Thanks for putting so much thought into it. You make some excellent points.

Just thought I had to mention the elephant in the corner, ie this contradiction:

First, America has hundreds of millions of citizens. It's a GROSS over-generalization to apply a single mindset to Americans.

Try also to remember that six years ago, the whole world was in favor of America hunting down terrorists.

Please note the obvious para-phrasing, btw!

Totally agree with your point about generalising when it comes to Americans. I've done it in the past and I have since made every effort not to. Therefore I think I'm not out of line if I say that a massive amount of people on this little blue planet couldn't have given two shits what the West did about terrorism back then. 9/11 was a major deal for most of us but probably didn't mean much to Mr and Mrs Anandasangaree in their little village in Sri Lanka.

Sorry, I'll shut the fuck up now!

I live in a predominantly rural area where a LOT of people have guns. I remember going to my uncles, friends, any other persons house when I was younger and seeing guns. It's a pretty normal thing around here to have a firearm and most of that is for hunting/sport.
I have several friends that have quite a few guns and collect them. I don't agree with it, but that's their choice.

I've always refused to have a firearm in my home because I don't need it. I live in the 10th safest city in the US and to have a gun for "protection" is pretty stupid.

People buy guns here on the streets all the time, just like drugs or anything else of that nature. I don't think stricter gun laws will change any violent crime in this country. I've heard that Canada actually has more firearms per capita than the US (not sure if that's true or not!) and they don't have near the crime.

It's the culture in the US that sensationalizes gun violence, and I'm not talking about movies of video games. I think the evening news here does more to promote gun violence than any of those two. Nothing is going to change here unless the mentality towards each other is changed. People here are afraid of each other.

I really don't know what to say about the VT tragedy. I do think it's a bit ridiculous that someone with a history of being in a mental health facility was able to buy a gun legally. If someone has a history of major depression, they're only going to use a gun for two things and I really don't understand why there's not more of a background check for those types of things.

Try also to remember that six years ago, the whole world was in favor of America hunting down terrorists.

I wasn't. I thought it was stupid. Nobody listened to me. Lots of people died. I say you put me in charge.

I've always refused to have a firearm in my home because I don't need it. I live in the 10th safest city in the US and to have a gun for "protection" is pretty stupid.

Damn right. Absolutely agree. If somebody is so worried about having their house broken into, they should have more security measures around the house itself. Y'know.. armoured windows, impenetrable locks, bullet proof vests.. Guns endanger other lives too, like.

I think the evening news here does more to promote gun violence than any of those two. Nothing is going to change here unless the mentality towards each other is changed. People here are afraid of each other.

I've never seen anything more pro-war, 'this is what happens on your street bang bang' than CNN or those laddies. I can't watch them. It makes me want to break my television.

I really don't know what to say about the VT tragedy. I do think it's a bit ridiculous that someone with a history of being in a mental health facility was able to buy a gun legally. If someone has a history of major depression, they're only going to use a gun for two things and I really don't understand why there's not more of a background check for those types of things.

That's what I said too. Yeah. It's absolutely insane that a man with his history could even apply to possess a firearm.

I agree with everyone that speaks about the US's gun culture being a bad thing. I completely agree, and I've many times questioned the true manliness of someone who actually needs a gun to beat someone up. If they were a real man they'd do it with their fists (not my actual thought process, but words that get into their heads). Anyway, yeah, while I don't believe that making guns illegal will help anything in the US, it's the culture that's the real problem, and that gun culture is a very dangerous one.

Huge avatar!

Just a general question, I believe it was JuZ that said guns outnumber people in the US. I completely believe that, but how many belong to gun collectors? I think that even if you cut down the collectors' collections to 2 each, guns would still outnumber people. Then, of course, you'd have to factor in (to some degree) the illegal ones. That kinda tailed off at the end there.

Here's a story:

I went to the highschool with the highest population of black students in the county (a group in which I am included, so no racist banhammers, please!), with an ever-growing population of hispanic students. one day a friend of mine, while heading to class, witnessed a kid whose 9mm fell out of his belt and hit the ground right in front of a teacher who was doing hall duty. The clip came out, so the kid asked his friend to get it for him. They collected the pieces and then continued on. The teacher did nothing, nor did my friend. I don't blame either of them, really. We had no metal detectors, so I know that there were many more guns around at any point in time since bloods, crips, and ms13 (if not more gangs) were represented at this fine educational institution.

So that's my little (completely true) story about guns.

Speechless.

[/hyperbole]

I'm a high school teacher. I am astounded that a teacher would witness a gun on a school campus and do nothing. That's easily grounds to lose your credential!!! I mean, it's not like the teacher needed to wrestle the kid to the ground, but you have to do something. Follow the kid to class and call security. Pull the fire alarm. Something!

I don't know if there are more guns than people in the U.S. Maybe. But, I can tell you that gun collectors have waaaaay more than 2 guns. Dude, my dad has more than 10 I'm sure. He's a gun geek. He generally only hunts paper But, I know he has on occassion shot up some fruits and vegetables. (Apparently melons are pretty spectacular when hit with a .44 round.) My uncle also has no less than 10 guns. But, they are the only two in my family like that. And, besides many of their guns are "vintage" and they own them for the novelty value or historical value. I mean, when they count all of those guns, I think it's kind of a ludicrous statistic because that's including things like the Ruger 10-22, a .22 caliber sport rifle that's great for hunting, say, gophers, but is completely not suitable for murderous rampage. And, I highly doubt that many kids are killing each other with this rifle, but there's a ton of them out there. Is it dangerous? Yeah, but so are lots of things. But, what most people are worried about is handguns. And, I strongly doubt there are more handguns than people, but I could be wrong about that too.

It's the culture in the US that sensationalizes gun violence, and I'm not talking about movies of video games. I think the evening news here does more to promote gun violence than any of those two. Nothing is going to change here unless the mentality towards each other is changed. People here are afraid of each other.

Well said. I think this is why when people say: "If we had guns on us we could have done somethingabout the rampage" It's only really going to make things more edgy. If this were the case and if everyone is afraid of each other (I'm generalising so you understand my point) then really it's like a timebomb ticking away until one small thing chains a masacre.

*EDIT* I'm probably too strongly opinionated, so sorry if I offend

[JuZ]

It's the culture in the US that sensationalizes gun violence, and I'm not talking about movies of video games. I think the evening news here does more to promote gun violence than any of those two. Nothing is going to change here unless the mentality towards each other is changed. People here are afraid of each other.

Well said. I think this is why when people say: "If we had guns on us we could have done something about the rampage" It's only really going to make things more edgy. If this were the case and if everyone is afraid of each other (I'm generalising so you understand my point) then really it's like a timebomb ticking away until one small thing chains a masacre.

*EDIT* I'm probably too strongly opinionated, so sorry if I offend

Damn, are we actually having a civilised discussion about this? How cool is that?

As an Aussie the whole "we should all have guns to stop this from getting out of hand" is very difficult to relate to, huh? I've always sensed an undercurrent of fear in so much of what comes out of the US. So while I wouldn't presume to say definitively that it's to blame for anything or is all-pervasive, it's very interesting to see an American agree.

Yeah it's really hard to relate to. I would be ineterested to go to America for a while to see what is different about their culture.

Yeah it's really hard to relate to. I would be ineterested to go to America for a while to see what is different about their culture.

In historical perspective, it could be seen as a bunch of Europeans let loose. Definitely feels as if it's gotten really out of hand.

As Eddie Izzard put it, we Europeans (watching America) are like:

"What the hell are you doing?"

America has too many ideas and too little thoughts about the long term consequences. Its reactions are always one step behind its actions.

"Long term"? That's new.

(I'm kidding!)

I can't stand Americans. I grew up in Annapolis, MD, which is nothing but a cesspool of people who are concerned with having Mercedes and Lexus', and are generally complete idiots. They cannot grasp the fact that the "fresh" meat they paid exorbitant prices for was shipped halfway across the country and actually had to be frozen. And they are, predictably, the models of horrific parents. BUT, that's a completely different forum-filling discussion.

I fully plan on moving to Europe when I'm done with school. You guys have heads on your shoulders, and it's much prettier over there.

From what my brother has told me, Europe is a lot more laid back than what we are here. Everyone there just lets you be, not like it is here. People can get screamed at just walking down the street (happened to me a few times) and get really upset over the smallest things like having to stand in line at the grocery store. If people here aren't afraid of each other, then they hate each other. I can't even begin to tell you the amount of chain e-mails that I get AT WORK that discriminate against the growing Hispanic population and Democrats.

We have a "hurry up and get it done" mentality here and the fact that anxiety disorders have risen in this nation over the past few years is a testament to that fact.

Anxiety = Fear. Fear can lead people to do some pretty insane things, like gun violence. Love him or hate him, the Michael Moore documentary "Bowling for Columbine" touches on all these things. There is an author he talks to (I wish I could remember the name of that book!) that says that violence is on decline, yet reporting of violence has gone up 200%.

Crazy times we live in!

EDIT: Here's the book! http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Fear-Amer ... 921&sr=8-1

Not all Americans are idiots, and not all people in other countries are Einsteins. How about we keep it to a nice, civil discussion, and leave out how much we can't stand other people.

K, thanks.