Let's put it this way:

I prefer the music and lyrics of Dr. Greg Graffin and Brett Gurewitz of Bad Religion fame over those by Billy Milano. But I still enjoy S.O.D. and the first couple of M.O.D. albums.

I wish I could bring it to the point like you!

[EphelDuath666]

well, nice that so many are getting involved in the discussion, that's pretty cool My problem is not primarily with beliefs...except for Nazi crap. I do my best to stay away from that as I really don't want to support those folks. I do believe that some people talk shit but then it's just that...shit talk. And a lot of such stuff is just provocation and not more than that. But here's an example for something I'm struggling with for example....take Zyklon. I do have a very uncomfy feeling when I think about who wrote the lyrics for all those Zyklon Albums I enjoy...Bard "Faust" Eithun, who actually murdered a (gay) man, don't know, like 14 years ago or so. Now one could say that he did that many years ago and spent a lot of time in jail for that. But that does not change what he did. And I read an interview with him, which was done a few years ago, where he said that the guy did not die from the (30 or so?) stabs but from the loss of blood...I mean...hellllooooo? And that makes a difference? But at least other comments he made made it sound like he regrets it now. I don't know...I just still feel uncomfy knowing that he may get even just a few cents from me.

someone mentioned Gorgoroth. Well, I honestly did not give their music any chance yet...not because what they are saying but because of what some of that band have done. One of them was in jail for rape, another one beat up a farmer and threatened him to drink his blood as far as I remember and was in jail for that too. And those guys don't seem to regret anything. I listened to a bit of their stuff and I guess I could be able to dig it but just can't get far enough to really give it a chance because of what those idiots have been up to.

I guess my point is...I can tolerate a lot but some things just seem to go too far for me and I often find myself struggling with all that...so I was and am wondering what others think.

I don't care. I love (some) black and death metal, no matter how much satanism and killing in the lyrics. I don't understand them anyway
Anyone who does take such lyrics seriously, needs to get themselves checked. Such people just don't get what metal is about, it's all a big joke.

Lyrics are probably the least important part of music for me. The voice is just another instrument, the words are meaningless if you ask me.

I agree Biert that the majority of these lyrics are nto serious, and like you said, that doesn't bother me...but when it is a genuine reflection of someone's political views, or if there is some serious issue with that person unrelated to their lyrical content, I'm not sure how it sits with me

[EphelDuath666]

I agree Biert that the majority of these lyrics are nto serious, and like you said, that doesn't bother me...but when it is a genuine reflection of someone's political views, or if there is some serious issue with that person unrelated to their lyrical content, I'm not sure how it sits with me

exactly...I guess we all agree that you cannot take EVERYTHING in Metal and music in general serious. But it can't get more serious than in the examples I mentioned, when things get actually physical.

Like others have said, I tend to think of the two separately for the most part. Like, I'll still listen to Burzum even though Varg's a murdering bastard. Just because the person/people behind the music are assholes or murderers or psychos or whatever else doesn't really mean I can't enjoy their music.

I don't care. I love (some) black and death metal, no matter how much satanism and killing in the lyrics. I don't understand them anyway
Anyone who does take such lyrics seriously, needs to get themselves checked. Such people just don't get what metal is about, it's all a big joke.

Lyrics are probably the least important part of music for me. The voice is just another instrument, the words are meaningless if you ask me.

true. but there are bands who have killed and raped people etc :\

I only bring it to mind if it's reflected in the music of the artist. If somebody's forcing beliefs on me, I won't want to listen to them. It's as simple as crossing the road because somebody wants you to love Jesus to as complex as when somebody in a song tells you that you have to worship Satan.

I mean, it's different if the song is about something I don't agree with, that's one thing. But if the songs are telling me to believe something that I feel is wrong, that's another completely.. though it may not put me off the band/artist as a whole if I like the music enough.

Y'know, I totally think I replied to this thread and it's not here. Anyone know what happened? Did I say something wrong?

[EphelDuath666]

that has happened to me before too, heh. I'm sure it was not deleted...it's probably just a technical issue. If you like, just try to say again what was supposed to be in this thread already. I'd care to hear your opinion, my friend

Nope, may have been a little glitch.

I've had a couple of connection hassles just now, so it may be that the Forum is a little twitchy. No deletions.

true. but there are bands who have killed and raped people etc :\

But listening to these bands doesn't have to mean that you condone these acts. It's possible to enjoy them purely on a musical level if you're willing/able to separate their acts and ideologies from the recorded output.

If it's the fact that you don't want these bands to make a cent from you then you shouldn't have any problems with downloading their CDs.

true. but there are bands who have killed and raped people etc :\

But listening to these bands doesn't have to mean that you condone these acts. It's possible to enjoy them purely on a musical level if you're willing/able to separate their acts and ideologies from the recorded output.

If it's the fact that you don't want these bands to make a cent from you then you shouldn't have any problems with downloading their CDs.

Then they might kill and/or rape me though!!!

Well, what I said before was amazingly brilliant. But, as such, it is impossible to recreate. So, I'll just have to do what I can.

I think that if I knew the artist was a truly reprehensible human being then I would have trouble listening to their music and supporting their art. Plus, it would bug me to listen to them knowing what I did.

Rush is one of my favorite bands. If I found out that Geddy Lee was a wife-beater, I probably would have a lot of trouble listening to them. I don't think you can really separate the art and the artist. The art *is* the artist and vice versa, I think. Plus, I would think that the artist's outlook and life would be a part of the art itself.

Back in the day, I bought "The Oath" by Merciful Fate. This album rocks! Killer riffs everywhere and awesome drums. But, it's chock full of Satanic lyrics. At the time (I was 17) it scared me. I was fairly religious and afraid that somehow the negativity of the music would affect me. I sold that album.

I bought it again recently because I dig the music. But, these days, I think the lyrics are more silly than anything else.
Again, it might bother me if I knew that King Diamond was really doing some gruesome stuff. I mean, honestly, this world is already bad enough. I don't like more negativity in my life. (One of the reasons I love Devin's music so much is because there's a lot that's positive.) That's not to say I want a bunch of happy pop music, either. But, there's darkness and then there's evil. I'm not too happy with actual evil. And, I do think that if I were to continually bombard myself with representations of evil that it might have some effect on my outlook and behavior.

I'm drawing the line between acting it and living it. I have no trouble with Cannibal Corpse because I know those guys have a sense of humor. If I found out one of them was literally into raping young girls with a butchering knife, that would be an immediate turn-off. Music should be entertainment. Lyrics should play with scenarios, whatever they might be. Explore the language, the psyche, the imagination, everything goes. But do it for the purpose of mental exercise, and JUST for that. How do I fell about the issue? Why does that gross me out? Why do I find that funny? Can anyone take this seriously? And stuff like that. But when someone crosses the line and thinks he isn't tr00 if he doesn't actually do some of that shit he writes about, that's retarded. I can't identify with that, the music itself retroactively becomes stained. Even if I enjoyed it previously, the sole knowledge of the author's idiotism will turn me away immediately. If it wouldn't, that would mean there's something in my unconscious psyche that can relate to that. I wouldn't deny it with stating that I can discern pure music from the evil author, I know enough to know it just doesn't work that way.