I did the same thing when I saw Symphony X a couple years ago. I was standing at the end of the bar drinking a beer and watching one of the other bands play. It wasn't crowded where I was standing, the bar and the concert area are on two separate levels. Russel Allen came over and stood right by me, literally within 3 feet. He was watching the band on stage just like I was. We're both standing there with our backs leaning up against the bar. I did nothing. I just internally froze and became overly anxious. I thought about saying, "Hey man, you're gonna kick our asses tonight right?" or, "Can I buy you a beer? Nah, don't want to fuck up your voice, how bout some water?" - but I just felt awkward and nervous. Nobody approached him either, except one guy who just put up the devil horns in front of him and crossed his arms in an "X" pattern and started headbanging. Russel responding by forming the "X" with his own arms. And then that guy went outside to smoke a joint, not Russel, the other guy who approached him.

But it was so weird for me. He's fucking standing right next to me, one of the best vocalists in all of metal, and I don't do shit. I just freeze. I couldn't even say "Hi." I lack social skills, I suck. Even if he said something to me, I don't know if I could have responded. And holy shit, he's a big dude. I'm a pretty big guy myself and I felt small standing next to him.

It was also weird though that nobody else, other than the pothead, approached him. I think the pothead was drunk too. So maybe if I was wasted, I could have talked to him, in fact I'm sure I could have. But I had to drive to fucking Iowa the next day, not to mention drive home from the venue that night.

Ha yes, I used to be like this. Now I'd just say fuck it and start up a conversation.

I did miss my chance to talk to Dev once, after SYL's too short set opening for Fear Factory a few years back. He walked right by me. But the look on his face and the way he was walking made me think he just wanted get back to the bus or whatever as soon as possible. He looked angry. But I did see Gene at the bar, shook his hand and talked for a minute. Seems like an extremely cool guy. I'll have to try again when DTP headlines, he seems in a better mood now.

Gene Hoglan walked right by me inside the venue during Death's 1995 tour for Symbolic. He had sunglasses on and it was dark as shit in there. That made me think he was blind!

And I thought, just when this guy can't be anymore amazing, to top it off he's blind!

Wow i see there's people like me out there, i wouldn't talk to someone i idolize neither or even ask for an autograph, i don't know i think i'd be bothering them

[The Dev]

There's a difference between paying a compliment, or just being 'nice' vs. being a creep ...nice folks are always welcome.

2 things:

2) My main problem with religions is the exclusionary aspects...there are many great things in many religions, yet if you are not adhering to one, then you are damned in a way...or 'pitied'... I remember being all fucked up in my mid 20's and going to the Christian church, the Hare Krisna temple, and another one (I forget whom...) and I stated how much the concept of 'the infinte' (or whatever metaphor for god suited it) was dear to me, and had GREAT conversations with the heads of each, until I asked each one what the fate of the others were...and they ALL said (paraphrasing) if you're not with US, you are doomed... thats what still depresses and confuses me, the exclusionary aspects of something that seems universal with just many different aesthetics.

Buddhism is cool in that way, but I have recently met some real dickhead buddhists too...condesending to the tits, and really insecure.

Thats it, sorry to keep on it...

Guess I'm breaking my promise lol.
I hate that too, the people who feel the need to say that if you don't believe what I believe God (or whatever diety) will damn you. Everything is wrong with that statement. First of all, how can you possibly say what God (I'm just gonna use that as a label) damns? Thats pretty damn egotistical to attempt, once again, to say you understand what the divine must think. Then I think in a way that makes you seem like you feel your God, to say who he must not like. It's ridiculous.

In a nutshell, I believe what I believe, and what anyone else believes is no more or less valid. I mean, I learn about other religions and I love it. It enriches what I believe because I see what connects us rather then what seperates us. I wish that those extremists could only see that, so much would be better in the world. We're not so different from each other. I feel like as long as what you teach is love, peace, and not hating each other you got some piece of the truth, whatever it is.

Now I'm done and I'm diggin this discussion Dev, thanks. And I hope to someday meet you, would love to talk and get a piece of your brain. In the non obsessive way

I second that. This is a really cool discussion, and I'm sure helps all of us know what's polite and what's creepy.
It always surprises me to hear from Dev, Karl Sanders etc. what stupid shit 'fans' do to try and gain recognition.

There's a difference between paying a compliment, or just being 'nice' vs. being a creep ...nice folks are always welcome.

I hope I didn't creep you out with the pizza I brought ya and the markers

I just understand how hard it is to be on tour and that every bit helps.

It was also a way for me to thank you for the inspiration.

[The Dev]

Dude, that pizza was SHIT HOT!

MAN that was good!

Thanks tons for that! If there was anything I needed that night, pizza like that was high on the list!

Dude, that pizza was SHIT HOT!

MAN that was good!

Thanks tons for that! If there was anything I needed that night, pizza like that was high on the list!

Well I'm glad I did something good

Like I said, it's free for me so feel free to order from me next time you're in Arizona.

And no, I don't just do this for you. Anyone really.

I guess I would have to say the same about your set. You did play pretty incredibly. You impressed a lot of us that night.

On a side note, the corner of that venue will never be the same. o.0

yeah its a weird thing meeting people whos art u love, you feel such an affinity with their work and sometimes have difficulty distinguishing it from them. I remember i met Clive Barker at a book signing, when he said hi, i so didnt have anything cool to say, so i just said hi and thanks for signing my book, but really, whats the reason for wanting to say something cool? so that they'll say 'shit dude, u r awesome, lets hang out'? not really, i think its just because you have been moved by this or that artist and that u want them to know that their shit is liked by an on the leval dude.

Its a vanity on behalf of the fan really, however, if i meet ya Dev, you'll think i rule and will soooo want to hang out!!

[The Dev]

ha...cool

Yeah, on this recent tour, at one gig there was a guy in a fairly popular band that found his way on to the bus with (seemingly) the express purpose of 'engaging' me in some intense conversation... preconcieved etc as to what was 'clever' to say etc, except I was totally shot, grumpy, and wanted to go to bed. I was as polite as I could be, as he was staring me down in a 'lets intellectually spar...' kind of way, and literally...I shook his hand and went to bed, and he looked totally bummed... like 'how could you NOT want to engage in this?!? I've read your lyrics...I know you think about this stuff'

So he was left confused, and the guys told me the next day he was rambling on about how he was looking forward to talking about all this heady shit with me, and 'I just went to bed' ( ...harumph... )

Thing is: Yeah I think about that stuff, for sure... I usually get a song or 3 a month out, and those one or two moments a month when those thoughts are pertinent are documented and honed over time, but I RARELY like sitting with folks, let alone strangers, and getting super deep. Why? Because I'm usually TIRED...touring is a job, sleep keeps the voice in shape, discipline to give the best performance I can. When I was 22, touring was about all night talk sessions with starry eyed folks, but now...I know what my job is, and honestly, without the weed, those conversations really don't interest me much anymore.

I ended up going to the local libraries and finding a quiet corner and a book. I like the comfort and the solitude around others doing the same. I often find more truth in shopkeepers and city workers who don't know or care about what I do, because when they are being dicks, it because they're being dicks, and when they're being kind, it's because they're being kind and I know where I stand. There's an honesty to it that appeals to the 'normal' side of me rather than the 'performer' side, as the normal side is what I base my self worth on. The relationships in my life that I hold most dear are all 20 or more years old...the folks that know me for the goofy dink that I am and not the image I've created. As an artist, it's tempting when you have a fight with your spouse about something tangible to fantasize about being involved with a young, 'impressed' fan...because it would take years for them to seperate the image from the reality and during that time, your ego would be STOKED...but again, eventually it would turn into another relationship and if the ratio was unbalanced, you could be sure as shit that the one time 'fan' who now knows the insecure 'you' would get sick of the same bullshit that broke up your relationship in the first place.

It's like producing your own music...you have to be aware of when you are bullshitting yourself (as much as your current frame of mind allows) because sure as anything, the 'casual fans' will cut through that instantly.

But again...it's awesome to talk with people who like the music. I like it too...and there's a time and a place at most shows to chat. I don't come out to be a recluse, I try to be available to folks, but you know...part of what makes my stuff appealing (to me) is the same part of me that makes me misanthropic sometimes. The comment above about me being pissy at an syl gig...could have been a money issue, could have been a fight with the wife, could have been a fight with a band member, could have been diarrhea...who knows?

k.

Just out of curiosity...Was that Mike Portnoy of Dream Theater?

[The Dev]

ha...no no, Mike's great.

I don't kiss and tell

Yeah, on this recent tour, at one gig there was a guy in a fairly popular band that found his way on to the bus with (seemingly) the express purpose of 'engaging' me in some intense conversation... preconcieved etc as to what was 'clever' to say etc, except I was totally shot, grumpy, and wanted to go to bed. I was as polite as I could be, as he was staring me down in a 'lets intellectually spar...' kind of way, and literally...I shook his hand and went to bed, and he looked totally bummed... like 'how could you NOT want to engage in this?!? I've read your lyrics...I know you think about this stuff'

It's one thing to want to talk, but to not respect someone's wishes (especially someone who's going through the stress and strain of touring) is just outright ridiculous. It really sucks to be that guy, because I know for a fact everyone else on your bus is really cool to talk to as well. Everyone in your band was very cool and had a sense of humor.

People with one track minds are...... Interesting?

I dunno man, life is all about patterns and chaos.

Everything in this universe is a pattern or shape (I'm sure you realize this and that the guy has probably done this multiple times because he's in a "cool" band and just likes meeting popular musicians), but when you don't have either you start breaking into chaos, and it's the most beautiful thing in the world (lightning anyone?).

His experience with you might have enlightened him for what is to come in the future (touring is not just fun and games), or how to deal with other people when they tell you "I'm tired, sorry we can't talk dude." Life is all about experiences.

Not saying the guy is a bad dude. You really didn't do anything wrong either dev, you're a legitimate guy. I was really happy to have met Devin and not a super hero. A guy who's playing on stages, working with crowds and hell, packing up his OWN EQUIPMENT after a show.

I guess if we all have one thing in common (you [excluding ziltoid], everyone on this board, richard simmons, and even simon cowell) is that we are ALL human, and only that. We all have to be born, eat, sleep, shit, piss, make mistakes, and die. I'm probably leaving a few out but meh.

:/

As an artist, it's tempting when you have a fight with your spouse about something tangible to fantasize about being involved with a young, 'impressed' fan...because it would take years for them to seperate the image from the reality and during that time, your ego would be STOKED...

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/99487