Another thing, I genuinely dislike when people act as if whatever Devin puts out is what they've "always been waiting for."

Sorry to disappoint you, but Epicloud IS what I've always waited for Dev to make. I love Accelerated Evolution, Addicted, etc, because I love what Dev does with that type of music. It's based in other music people make, but what I like is what Dev does it. I'm a fan of Dev, and I like what he does with music--if that makes me a "fanboy" so be it. Do I think it's perfect, or that Dev is? No. Not at all. For example, not a huge fan of Divine and kinda Angel. But the rest (i.e. Liberation, Save Our Now, Grace, More!, etc) are just the pure poppy metal I've always wanted from Dev. AE and Addicted got close but were still based more in that proggy metal realm at points. That doesn't mean I like Epicloud more, just that it's always something I've wanted to hear from him.

Now, take Ghost. I've always wanted to hear purely peaceful music from that side of Dev's musical output. Most of the other quieter stuff he has released gets heavy in parts and isn't "pure" in that sense; once again, I love it, but I'm interested in pure polarities. Ghost, though, got so close to that and is purely peaceful but some songs don't have enough Dev-vibe for it to be "that" record for me. That's why I'm really excited for CoC.

Dev is by no means perfect, and you're silly if you think so, but he's an imaginative and talented musician beyond hardly any others I can think of. I don't agree with saying "you're a dumb shit" if you don't like something, but I will discuss why I like it. And there's muh piece.

I think I would enjoy Devin's music a lot more if I had never found this forum.

Quite frankly, there's the door, dude.

Can I ask a valid question in response to the C is For Cookie post above...

How can any one here, in this forum, possibly attempt to accuse Devin of "making something that just sounds thrown together"?

Just sayin, Dev can spill coffee and it would sound better and more original than anything anyone here could put together.

Effervescent is pointless? Really....so him putting it at the end of the album and the end of True North is pointless also? Someone needs to get this kid the Listening Party so you can hear Dev's insight on the thing. I think you're completely missing the point of the idea of the album.

Grace is probably the most piecemeal, thrown-together song I've recently heard of his career. How I hear it is:
-Nice intro
-Breakdownier By Your Command riff with Stand vocals
-a collection of words (LIVE! LAUGH! LOVE! LEARN! NEVER FEAR LOVE! etc)
-Anneke singing over the Supercrush intro
-repetitions
-end

and Effervescent is pointless too. The explanations of his intentions from the listening party doesn't void any of this.

Different strokes for different folks, mang.

-Nice intro
-Breakdownier By Your Command riff with Stand vocals
-a collection of words (LIVE! LAUGH! LOVE! LEARN! NEVER FEAR LOVE! etc)
-Anneke singing over the Supercrush intro
-repetitions
-end

Yup. But it still rocks.

I usually don't care how a song gets to where it is as much as I care how it makes me feel. I've learned long ago that I enjoy music a lot more when I stop thinking about it and just listen. I never noticed the "Supercrush!" part until RVP mentioned it to me. I probably wouldn't have noticed the "By Your Command" portion right away if I hadn't heard the listening party video. I just hear everything as it is in the context of the existing song. Analyzing won't come for me until I'm sick of the music, and have nothing more to do but analyze.

For some reason this doesn't work for Rush. When I listen to Rush, I sit down and think about it all, including lyrics. That's the only band I still do that for.

[Octillus]

You just have an unquenchable lust for Canadians, Paul.

I like Grace more than any of those songs listed except Stand, catfood. So, I don't know, this is one of the ones that works for me.

I usually don't care how a song gets to where it is as much as I care how it makes me feel.

This. To a tee.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy picking apart songs. But at the end of the day if I like a song I like a song-- it doesn't really matter the machinery behind it as long as I like it.

Yup. But it still rocks.

I usually don't care how a song gets to where it is as much as I care how it makes me feel. I've learned long ago that I enjoy music a lot more when I stop thinking about it and just listen. I never noticed the "Supercrush!" part until RVP mentioned it to me. I probably wouldn't have noticed the "By Your Command" portion right away if I hadn't heard the listening party video. I just hear everything as it is in the context of the existing song. Analyzing won't come for me until I'm sick of the music, and have nothing more to do but analyze.

For some reason this doesn't work for Rush. When I listen to Rush, I sit down and think about it all, including lyrics. That's the only band I still do that for.

Yeah don't get me wrong man, the bulk of the music I like is based on gut feelings. Lyrics have never been Devin's strongest point, but the flow of them has always been enough to make up for it, Grace just feels lazy though.

And how Believe and Happy Birthday didn't make the cut is beyond me, those songs are awesome

[Octillus]

Yup. But it still rocks.

I usually don't care how a song gets to where it is as much as I care how it makes me feel. I've learned long ago that I enjoy music a lot more when I stop thinking about it and just listen. I never noticed the "Supercrush!" part until RVP mentioned it to me. I probably wouldn't have noticed the "By Your Command" portion right away if I hadn't heard the listening party video. I just hear everything as it is in the context of the existing song. Analyzing won't come for me until I'm sick of the music, and have nothing more to do but analyze.

For some reason this doesn't work for Rush. When I listen to Rush, I sit down and think about it all, including lyrics. That's the only band I still do that for.

Yeah don't get me wrong man, the bulk of the music I like is based on gut feelings. Lyrics have never been Devin's strongest point, but the flow of them has always been enough to make up for it, Grace just feels lazy though.

And how Believe and Happy Birthday didn't make the cut is beyond me, those songs are awesome

Well now you're speaking my language. Epiclouder is my album of the year so far.

Epicloud's like... top 10 or something.

I think when you give yourself to the type of lyrics Dev writes you enjoy them a lot more. They're more, I dunno, "surface-y" maybe than most artists lyrics. They're not always super poetic or wrapped in covered meanings. That being said, they do have a specific brand of buried meaning that I think is all Dev. I think it is the straight-forwardness of the lyrics is something attractive to me, whereas a band like, say, Rosetta has lyrics that I love for their complexity.

I don't know if that makes any sense, but... fuck it.

So what I'm reading here is:

"I signed up for a forum where I feel the songwriter is lazy on lyrics and throws together songs, but I like all his other stuff!!!".

1) I'll go back to my original point, who the fawk are we to say anything Devin does is "thrown together"? Seriously. The guy spends 8-12 a day working on music and layering ideas. Thrown together is what people who used sample CD's to make dubstep hits are. Devin is not that.

2) You could say any vocalist is lazy on writing lyrics. (snobby hipster fanboy voice) "Man, I can't believe he used the word 'red' instead of crimson...what a lazy bastard! He obviously doesn't know how to write lyrics. I clearly would have written a better masterpiece from my mothers basement. One day I shall...and I'll use intricate words that no one can figure out so then, and only then I will not be like that Devin peasant and be viewed as lazy as to express my emotions!!!"

Fanboy mentality is just comedy.

So what I'm reading here is:

"I signed up for a forum where I feel the songwriter is lazy on lyrics and throws together songs, but I like all his other stuff!!!".

1) I'll go back to my original point, who the fawk are we to say anything Devin does is "thrown together"? Seriously. The guy spends 8-12 a day working on music and layering ideas. Thrown together is what people who used sample CD's to make dubstep hits are. Devin is not that.

2) You could say any vocalist is lazy on writing lyrics. (snobby hipster fanboy voice) "Man, I can't believe he used the word 'red' instead of crimson...what a lazy bastard! He obviously doesn't know how to write lyrics. I clearly would have written a better masterpiece from my mothers basement. One day I shall...and I'll use intricate words that no one can figure out so then, and only then I will not be like that Devin peasant and be viewed as lazy as to express my emotions!!!"

Fanboy mentality is just comedy.

I know, it is, right

There's a difference between 'thrown together' and 'sounds thrown together'. Grace is essentially a big mish-mash of recycled ideas (which Devin has never shied away from in the past, but it doesn't work here, as far as I'm concerned). Regardless of how long Devin spends making music, it doesn't detract from the fact that Grace SOUNDS like it was put together quickly. I think the majority of the vocals for Grace (and Divine) sound lazy, because it's mostly simple phrases and single words rather than well written lyrics. And the whole 'you could say any vocalist is lazy on writing lyrics' thing is plain retarded, since most vocalists spend time constructing lyrics and vocals that add a narrative and texture to the song, instead of 'Love, live, laugh... learn? Good enough."

I could see how Grace might seem thrown together and disjointed. Hell, nothing really popped out at me the first few times. Now, of course, I think it might be Devin's best song of all time. It might seem repetitive, but there's never a section that's repeated verbatim. There's always a new layer to decipher, which is kind of an interesting twist, since Devin typically layers everything at once and relies on the listener to listen a few more times to catch all the subtleties, but it'd be theoretically possible to "hear" everything this song has to offer in a single listen. Even with the more gentle approach to the layering, there's still a shitload of stuff buried underneath for the listener to catch on repeated listens.

Really, I think the same can be said for most of the album. The hooks are there, so the casual listener could very easily sit idly and enjoy the vocal melodies and the riffs. On the other hand, the experienced listener will likely still find enough of the trademark wall of Dev to pick away at it for a long time. That, to me, is the strongest aspect of the album (aside from the songs, which all own an immeasurable amount of ass on their own).

As far as the lyrics, I fail to see the problem. Why does a song have to have a complex narrative to be considered lyrically good? He's been doing those "single word/phrase" songs for his entire career. Regulator, Unity, Soul Driven, and Away (all top notch songs) just to name a few.

If you want to start seeing songs where you can't figure out most of the words, go look at The Mars Volta

I'm not really sure what people are talking about when they say that Grace recycles parts from old songs. There is no 'By Your Command section.' Originally Devin had planned to have the same drum rhythm as the end of 'By Your Command' in the chorus riff but chose not to because he wanted to avoid the Ziltoid vibe. Other than the last two bars of that riff which are similar, that whole drum beat is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Just because he mentioned the words 'By Your Command' in the commentary doesn't mean it's the same and if you think it sounds the same you may wanna have another listen.

And another thing....

Anneke singing over the 'Supercrush' part? Do you mean the bridge? Where the Chord progression and melody are completely different? It's even in a minor key rather than a Major key. The only similarity is that for a small portion of the bridge has the same drum beat, which is also in OM. And saying that's recycling is like saying anyone who uses a blastbeat/straight8/punkbeat/swingbeat is stealing from everyone else who has ever done that. Which is just completely silly.

As for, 'the lyrics are just a collection of words thrown together,' This.

Ultimetalhead: As far as the lyrics, I fail to see the problem. Why does a song have to have a complex narrative to be considered lyrically good? He's been doing those "single word/phrase" songs for his entire career. Regulator, Unity, Soul Driven, and Away (all top notch songs) just to name a few.

I understand frustrations with reused parts in music and it also annoys me when people say that "Dev could spill a coffee and it would sound great" (even though I wouldn't let that affect how I personally hear the music) However, a lot of things that are being said simply aren't true.

I love the album, but my main qualms are the repition of verses (Angel) that some of the vocals are hard to understand. Devin usaually has great Diction but in 'Hold On' and 'Divine' it's really hard to hear the consonants.

[JuZ]

hey there!

i actually don