You are the rainbow! You are the sun to my chameleon!

#109838 by Janne
Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:19 am
DonorByHabit wrote:I think it makes perfectly sense that Synchestra has some discreet, musical references to Devin's backcatalogue, since he brings up topics that he's also dealt with on previous albums.


Could you be a little bit more specific? What topics would that be?

In what way would "Triumph" be a reference to "Relentless", "Skeksis", "Earth day", "Canada" or "Random Analysis" - musical references that have been pointed out by armheadmcgee, Falk and theoryman? (Well, in the case of "Random Analysis", it's pretty obvious, isn't it? After all, that what we're doing here, right? :P)

Or could you explain the connection between "Judgement" and "Planet rain", found by both Bloor and rgx612a?

Or could you at least explain why "Sunset" uses the same melody as "Truth" - a fact that was pointed out to us by danceswithchickens?

As far as I see it, there is a possibility that at least some musical and/or lyrical references have been intentionally placed there. But it's far from enough to just point out similarities. The connections must also make some sense.

#109844 by danceswithchickens
Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:41 am
I think Devin is just recording the music that he hears in his head. If it bears some semblance to previous works, so be it. It's not like he's releasing the same album twice.

For my part, I don't want to know exactly why he does what he does. I don't want to know what every single lyric means, any more than I want to know how much editing was done to make it sound as good as it does. A bit of mystery only heightens my appreciation of the whole thing...

#110147 by Ike
Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:18 pm
Janne wrote:In what way would "Triumph" be a reference to "Relentless", "Skeksis", "Earth day", "Canada" or "Random Analysis" - musical references that have been pointed out by armheadmcgee, Falk and theoryman? (Well, in the case of "Random Analysis", it's pretty obvious, isn't it? After all, that what we're doing here, right? :P)


i'd say in the other cases it's really that devin has some standards of his own that you can find in almost every album. it's mainly guitar rhythms and most of them appear on ocean machine for the first time.

Or could you explain the connection between "Judgement" and "Planet rain", found by both Bloor and rgx612a?


the lyrical topic seems to be similar, and i guess this is the way devin likes the words "i'm sorry" most. also, he must have realized that the same line is coming up again and so decided to make an obvious connection here, which it certainly is.

Or could you at least explain why "Sunset" uses the same melody as "Truth" - a fact that was pointed out to us by danceswithchickens?


this is the same melody, but a very different rhythm and tempo. i guess here it's random. that melodic construction simply carries a good, energetic vibration that fits both songs well.

As far as I see it, there is a possibility that at least some musical and/or lyrical references have been intentionally placed there. But it's far from enough to just point out similarities. The connections must also make some sense.


indeed. but i believe that at least the connection between judgement and planet rain makes a lot of sense, as both songs deal with guilt and how to handle it, and thus with the feeling of being sorry and feeling bad as a human.

#110174 by Falk
Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:02 pm
(Concerning what I said about Triumph/Skeksis, it's not a reference or something, it's just me who find the bass/drum rythm is a bit "ethnic" (?) and my mind connects it with the one at the end of Skeksis, but nothing made "on purpose" I think...
Maybe I was off-topic :þ)

#110175 by Janne
Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:18 pm
Ike wrote:...i believe that at least the connection between judgement and planet rain makes a lot of sense, as both songs deal with guilt and how to handle it, and thus with the feeling of being sorry and feeling bad as a human.


I appreciate the time you took to answer my questions. And to me, your answers kinda proves my point:

Guitar rythms favored by Devin. (Or "ethnic" rythms, as Falk so elegantly puts it.) As you say, these are probably not references per se, but rather the result of Devins style of writing music.

As for the connection quoted above, I feel that topics like guilt, feeling sorry or feeling bad are too... How should I say it... "big" to use as a connection between two certain songs, mainly because there are lots of songs in Devin's catalogue that discuss these topics. My guess is that the lyrical likenesses are symptoms of Devin's style of writing lyrics. Again, the "ethnicity" turns out to be a fitting description.

These are all Devin Townsend albums. Does it actually come as a surprise to anyone, that there are similarities between them? One would be more surprised to find no similarities at all...

#110178 by ALieN
Mon Feb 06, 2006 2:26 pm
There's a riff in "Pixillate" that reminds me of the riff in the beginning of "Suicide".. just not as heavy.

#110200 by Ike
Mon Feb 06, 2006 3:48 pm
yo janne! - good points. still i find it interesting to look for those similarities and maybe analyze them a littlebit, in a "music-psychological" way or so, you know? you're certainly right when you say, "it's because he's writing all these songs on his own", but still it's interesting for me (and others) to see what patterns and symbols he uses, last but not least because his "system" is rather unconventional.

#110248 by gurp13
Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:04 pm
Dev has made it clear in a couple of things he's said that this album references other albums and closes a chapter for him. So, it's inevitable that there will be call backs to other songs.

That being said, I think a lot of this, as others have pointed out, is more a function of Dev being Dev and this being his style of music and his "voice" rather than Dev recycling or plagiarizing. First, technically, you can't plagiarize yourself. Plagiarism is using someone elses work without permission or credit. Secondly, it's not like he's rewriting songs here and re-titling them. Little bits and pieces will show up, I think. (Ha, isn't "bits and pieces" a Britsh euphemism for the male genitalia!?) But, I don't hear most of what people are talking about. I hear very distinct and unique songs that are very much new.

Oh, and Janne, you said something about the casual listener to Devin. Do you think such a person exists? I never heard of a person listening to Devin casually. I think this is a myth. :)

#110378 by Janne
Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:42 am
gurp13 wrote:Oh, and Janne, you said something about the casual listener to Devin. Do you think such a person exists? I never heard of a person listening to Devin casually. I think this is a myth. :)


:lol: I wish! But there actually is such a listener. I know a couple of them myself (I'm even married to one - that might make me a blasphemer of sorts...). These people like a few songs, but overall they're not that impressed with what they hear. And they would never realise if a riff or a phrase had been used on another album, in another song. Especially not if the reference was made to a SYL-song, since all of them loathe SYL... :cry:

#110482 by gurp13
Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:15 pm
Janne wrote:
gurp13 wrote:Oh, and Janne, you said something about the casual listener to Devin. Do you think such a person exists? I never heard of a person listening to Devin casually. I think this is a myth. :)


:lol: I wish! But there actually is such a listener. I know a couple of them myself (I'm even married to one - that might make me a blasphemer of sorts...). These people like a few songs, but overall they're not that impressed with what they hear. And they would never realise if a riff or a phrase had been used on another album, in another song. Especially not if the reference was made to a SYL-song, since all of them loathe SYL... :cry:


You're a blasphemer? I'm a treasonous heretic! My wife hates, loathes and despises Devin Townsend and SYL. Seriously. I had to make a special smart playlist on my iPod that won't play any DT or SYL (it picks songs randomly based on my ratings and "played since"). It's sick. But, she gets pissed if it comes on. I don't know why. Anyway, burn me at the stake. It's my fault. I married her.

Of course, she let me buy a Specialized FSR full-suspension mountain bike. And, she bought me two Devin Townsend t-shirts. She doesn't begrudge me my love of all things Dev. She just doesn't want to partake. Other than that, she's a hell of a woman. :love:

#110506 by canadianghetto
Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:07 am
Im surprised no one has said anything about in Pixillate when dev screams "SCIENCE!" a couple times in the song. I thought that was a sweet tie to alien although not quite as cool as the Notes from Africa part.

#110548 by Matthijs K.
Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:12 am
gurp13 wrote:My wife hates, loathes and despises Devin Townsend and SYL. Seriously.


My girlfriend could be friends with your wife....

#110552 by spanknuts
Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:41 am
I think one can draw immediate parallels between these songs and Dev's other ones. It's a bit unfair to say they are unimaginative; they are themes, every half-decent artist has them and recalls them in his work to signify what s/he means to. Either way, Devin's older work has references that are much more obvious than those you can find in Synchestra (which IMHO are mostly made up of stylistic similarities) - particularly, his work before Physicist ("Don't die on me..."... also that melody in Death of Music comes from Japan's chorus, the intro riff in War was used in Fake Punk... and more, those were the ones from the top of my head).
The way I see it (long post ahead)...

Let It Roll reminded me of the beginning of Deep Peace, in how it sets a calm mood with thoughtful lyrics (that were thematically similar to those from Nobody's Here right in the beginning) and a simple, yet beautiful, acoustic guitar and melody.

Hypergeek, as you probably imagined, might have been something coming from Physicist. But it's a quite special song, IMHO: notice how it could be the soundtrack to a space shuttle launch... the slow countdown and then... the short silence right before - "HEEY!!" - the enormous and delayed explosions that send the shuttle flying in the air; then, after that, the spacey melodies, that could mean the feeling of looking out of the canopy window and seeing how Earth looks like.
Then it sets the theme for Triumph which is currently my favorite song in the album. The build-up until the "and they said it was this..." and the chorus give a feeling similar to that of Ocean Machines or OM. The part of it before the wacky country solo seems to be reminiscent of Canada.

Babysong could have been something coming out from Infinity, especially in the 3/4 part starting at 2:20 (I can't but sing "In the morning 'bout three or so..." in that part :P) which morphs into a Alien styled version of its beginning.

Sonically Vampolka/Vampira are quite unlike anything Devin has ever done, despite being logical counterparts of Bad Devil, both in their theme and their humorous approach to it. Vampira actually does it in a very bold rocking style similar to that of Night (but this link is much more obvious a bit later on).

Mental Tan is a quite nice synth led song. The first time I heard it I was kind of disappointed because it wasn't sounding very Devin-ish to me; particularly I thought it was missing a Terria touch (I mean - a bunch of layers of samples of crazy stuff would be very appropriate)... then that flaw was fixed exactly when I thought of that, at 1:30. But I guess making this song have a long silent-ish interlude in the end (like The Fluke or Mountain) would be out of place in an album like this. It introduces Gaia with a cool effect.

Speaking of Gaia, this is what I was talking when I said that a greater link to Night was evident. This song has IMO the exact vibe of it, with the heavy rock stylings, and the synthesizer arpeggios, even though the lyrics are quite less intimate than the ones from Night. I really like its beginning and the guitar melodies at the end.

Like ALieN said the bassline from Pixillate is quite similar to that of Suicide, but I think the similiarities end there with all the western samples and the female vocals. I think it's a very epic piece and even though it's obviously a Devin song, it's in a class of its own.

Judgement reminds me, again, of something from Infinity, with a density similar to Soul Driven Cadillac or Life Is All Dynamics until the "I'm sorry" reference to Planet Rain is recalled into the softer part, beginning with the reappearance of a theme from Mental Tan. It then invokes a feeling IMHO similar to the quiet bridge from Mountain. This song forms a pair with A Simple Lullaby which I consider to be a counterpart to Tiny Tears as they share a theme of "begging for forgiveness" (besides the similar melody in the beginning). However, there is a certain irony in the ending - whereas in Tiny Tears the subject has "learned his lesson," here he's fired upon, in front of an audience!

Sunset recalled me of Stagnant, even though this one's a much mellower song. I like how Truth is referenced in the ending, introducing a certain setting of self-conciousness and self-discovery which is, IMHO, the theme of that track and quite in place for Synchestra's themes.

Wasn't Notes From Africa the name of one of the compositions in Terria's booklet? The reference to Alien is obvious, but I didn't understand it well.

Finally Sunshine and Happiness, which starts quite like Forgotten, could be something out of a cross between Punky Brüster and Accelerated Evolution.

#110587 by Janne
Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:30 am
gurp13 wrote:You're a blasphemer? I'm a treasonous heretic! My wife hates, loathes and despises Devin Townsend and SYL. Seriously. I had to make a special smart playlist on my iPod that won't play any DT or SYL (it picks songs randomly based on my ratings and "played since"). It's sick. But, she gets pissed if it comes on. I don't know why. Anyway, burn me at the stake. It's my fault. I married her.


Matthijs K. wrote:My girlfriend could be friends with your wife....


It feels good to see I'm not alone with this problem... ;)

My wife experiences extreme stress and some nausea when I play anything by SYL. And the solo stuff usually leaves her strangely emotionless. At best she says things like: "This was actually listenable, is this really Devin Townsend?" (said with a hint of surprise), or "At least it isn't SYL" (said with a hint of torment, probably just before her leaving the room)...

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