1) You go against the artist's wishes.

He doesn't want me to hear the album before I buy it? Why? Is there something wrong with it?

2) You potentially encourage or enable others to do the same, with no guarantee that they will have the same moral standpoint as you and may not purchase the final product.

I also potentially guide new fans in his direction.

3) You dispel/deflate the mystery and hype that surrounds a release, which may in turn harm sales (though thats a bit vague).

I actively try to take no or very little part in hypes of any kind. They're like tricking someone into buying a product he/she actually doesn't want or need (like factory torn jeans).

4) You make Devin sigh!

You make me sigh!

5) You pre-judge the album without seeing the complete package (intended quality/mix of audio, artwork, lyrics, notes and extras). Perhaps similar to only seeing one side of the argument in a courtroom.

The magic was still there when "Alien" finally came out and I got my copy in the mail. Besides, I don't judge music, I listen to it and experience it. I agree, though, that reviews based on downloaded material can prove "faulty".

6) You make the HDF moderators very sad. I cry into my mango every night!

It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it...

8) The more digital/illegal copies of the album exist, the more people on release day there will be that have not yet bought the album. At this point, we are unable to tell if any one of these people ever intend to buy the album.

We are equally unable to tell if any one of those people never intend to buy it.

9) The more people who download the album illegally, the less people on release that are eager to buy the album. Less eager = less desperate = less good. Some people may not bother to buy the album due to a severe lack of eagerness. This would smelly.

That would depend on what they think of the music, right? I see nothing smelly in that people that don't like the music also don't buy it.

And that's it. What it all boils down to, is that artists in general lose out on the sales that traditionally went to people that "believed the hype". People who would buy an album, listen to it once and then leave it to gather dust in a corner of the room or under the bed. Dammit, I own two Korn albums! (See what I mean?)

To me, it would appear a better thing if every sold copy of Synchestra ended up in the possession of someone that really liked it, rather than someone who "believed the hype", went out and got themselves a copy and then just didn't feel the magic like we do.

They lose - Devin wins?

Not in the way I see it.

Did Devin ever say out loud that he hates it when his stuff is being listened to before it's official release?

Did Devin ever say out loud that he hates it when his stuff is being listened to before it's official release?

He asked us not to download it. I think that's enough to prove Blazingmongas first point to be true.

Here it is: http://hevydevyforums.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4655.

Did Devin ever say out loud that he hates it when his stuff is being listened to before it's official release?

He asked us not to download it. I think that's enough to prove Blazingmongas first point to be true.

Here it is: http://hevydevyforums.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4655.

Unfortunately, I didn't read that before.
Still, if he really didn't want any of us to check it out, I doubt he would have gone through the hassle of typing that long message.

Did Devin ever say out loud that he hates it when his stuff is being listened to before it's official release?

He asked us not to download it. I think that's enough to prove Blazingmongas first point to be true.

Here it is: http://hevydevyforums.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4655.

Unfortunately, I didn't read that before.
Still, if he really didn't want any of us to check it out, I doubt he would have gone through the hassle of typing that long message.

You're trying to talk things straight for yourself. That is utter bullshit, excusez le mot.

As he clearly says in the post, he writes that long story because he want's us to know what the album is about. He is affraid that, if people download the album and don't see the booklet with the artwork, lyrics and notes, they do not get what the album is about and kill the album before it's actual birth. He wants us to understand what the album is about, so we can enjoy it on another level.
He knew the promos were out, he knew the album would leak in a matter of time and he knew people would download it. And he wanted the downloaders to understand what it's all about.

HE FUCKING SAID "PLEASE DON'T DOWNLOAD IT!" What more proof do you want? Do you think that was some kind of reversed psychology or something? Maybe you should use your brain for other purposes than just keeping your ears apart.

*sigh*

Keep it civil.

Did Devin ever say out loud that he hates it when his stuff is being listened to before it's official release?

He asked us not to download it. I think that's enough to prove Blazingmongas first point to be true.

Here it is: http://hevydevyforums.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4655.

Unfortunately, I didn't read that before.
Still, if he really didn't want any of us to check it out, I doubt he would have gone through the hassle of typing that long message.

You're trying to talk things straight for yourself. That is utter bullshit, excusez le mot.

As he clearly says in the post, he writes that long story because he want's us to know what the album is about. He is affraid that, if people download the album and don't see the booklet with the artwork, lyrics and notes, they do not get what the album is about and kill the album before it's actual birth. He wants us to understand what the album is about, so we can enjoy it on another level.
He knew the promos were out, he knew the album would leak in a matter of time and he knew people would download it. And he wanted the downloaders to understand what it's all about.

HE FUCKING SAID "PLEASE DON'T DOWNLOAD IT!" What more proof do you want? Do you think that was some kind of reversed psychology or something? Maybe you should use your brain for other purposes than just keeping your ears apart.

I'm not trying to talk things straight for anyone. I saw the album, and since I'm a huge fan, downloaded it in a fit of enthusiasm. I'll buy the album when it comes out, just like I've done with all of his stuff. Had I read his topic before I wouldn't have gotten it. It's that simple.

It sounds more like you are trying to shove your head up Dev's arse, something I doubt he's waiting for. You don't need to act like his spokesman, or try to be all cool and smart. Oh and by the way, maybe you should use your eyes for more than just gazing through your emo glasses, I said twice that had I read it before, I would not have gotten it.

And come on man, behave like you're over 12, not like a frustrated nerd. No need to bitch.

[Blazingmonga]

Both of you, calm down.

To Janne, thank you for responding to my answers. However, I think that the points I raised are indeed valid. I'm not suggesting that Devin will hate you forever if he finds out you downloaded his album. I don't know if he will or not.
All I do know is that he asked us not to download his album. If there is one person on this forum, or in fact the whole world, who truly knows the answer to this argument - it's him. If he didn't want us to download his album then I can safely assume that he had some very good reasons to say that. I only came up with 10 vague ones...heck, maybe he has 11! And maybe they are all very good reasons.

I just don't know. Ultimately, it is up to him. I don't think we have a right to argue about that.

For me, I choose not to download it because I know how much the HDR, DTB (and similarly, SYL) people work for people like us. The only time we really have any chance to repay their efforts is in fulfilling their wishes when it comes to purchasing their music or supporting them in any way we can.

I also know how good a cold beer can feel when you have a new album in your hand that you have been anticipating for so long. That moment when you first taste the new music is worth waiting for and worth savouring. Any other way just wouldn't be the same. Like opening your Christmas presents early or having your dessert before your starter.

One final point that you ALL can agree on (and if not, the mango therapy will commence): I am sure that the last thing Devin or anybody would ever want is for their music to be the cause of spiteful, aggressive or hateful comments. We can disagree on the music, but there is never ANY need for insults. Not here.

Both of you, calm down.

To Janne, thank you for responding to my answers. However, I think that the points I raised are indeed valid. I'm not suggesting that Devin will hate you forever if he finds out you downloaded his album. I don't know if he will or not.
All I do know is that he asked us not to download his album. If there is one person on this forum, or in fact the whole world, who truly knows the answer to this argument - it's him. If he didn't want us to download his album then I can safely assume that he had some very good reasons to say that. I only came up with 10 vague ones...heck, maybe he has 11! And maybe they are all very good reasons.

I just don't know. Ultimately, it is up to him. I don't think we have a right to argue about that.

For me, I choose not to download it because I know how much the HDR, DTB (and similarly, SYL) people work for people like us. The only time we really have any chance to repay their efforts is in fulfilling their wishes when it comes to purchasing their music or supporting them in any way we can.

I also know how good a cold beer can feel when you have a new album in your hand that you have been anticipating for so long. That moment when you first taste the new music is worth waiting for and worth savouring. Any other way just wouldn't be the same. Like opening your Christmas presents early or having your dessert before your starter.

One final point that you ALL can agree on (and if not, the mango therapy will commence): I am sure that the last thing Devin or anybody would ever want is for their music to be the cause of spiteful, aggressive or hateful comments. We can disagree on the music, but there is never ANY need for insults. Not here.

I agree with you, and I'm not getting agressive or hateful. Reminds me of that 'agruing on the internet is like winning the special people's olympics' picture.

And until the Dev himself adds me on MSN and tells me he hates my guts for downloading it prior to its release, I'm not goign to cry.

hey i don't know if it was deliberate 'monga but you missed 7

Did Devin ever say out loud that he hates it when his stuff is being listened to before it's official release?

He asked us not to download it. I think that's enough to prove Blazingmongas first point to be true.

Here it is: http://hevydevyforums.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4655.

Unfortunately, I didn't read that before.
Still, if he really didn't want any of us to check it out, I doubt he would have gone through the hassle of typing that long message.

You're trying to talk things straight for yourself. That is utter bullshit, excusez le mot.

As he clearly says in the post, he writes that long story because he want's us to know what the album is about. He is affraid that, if people download the album and don't see the booklet with the artwork, lyrics and notes, they do not get what the album is about and kill the album before it's actual birth. He wants us to understand what the album is about, so we can enjoy it on another level.
He knew the promos were out, he knew the album would leak in a matter of time and he knew people would download it. And he wanted the downloaders to understand what it's all about.

HE FUCKING SAID "PLEASE DON'T DOWNLOAD IT!" What more proof do you want? Do you think that was some kind of reversed psychology or something? Maybe you should use your brain for other purposes than just keeping your ears apart.

I'm not trying to talk things straight for anyone. I saw the album, and since I'm a huge fan, downloaded it in a fit of enthusiasm. I'll buy the album when it comes out, just like I've done with all of his stuff. Had I read his topic before I wouldn't have gotten it. It's that simple.

It sounds more like you are trying to shove your head up Dev's arse, something I doubt he's waiting for. You don't need to act like his spokesman, or try to be all cool and smart. Oh and by the way, maybe you should use your eyes for more than just gazing through your emo glasses, I said twice that had I read it before, I would not have gotten it.

And come on man, behave like you're over 12, not like a frustrated nerd. No need to bitch.

Let me pick the single sentence that bugged me when I wrote that post:
"Still, if he really didn't want any of us to check it out, I doubt he would have gone through the hassle of typing that long message."
My previous post explains my point of view on that sentence. Maybe I should have skipped the single offensive comment I made, but I still completely stand behind what I said. I'll leave it to that.

Ok. Devin asked us not to download it. That's a very respectful and humble request. And I'm willing to do what he requests. But not as a matter of principle when it comes to downloading, which I think this discussion revolves a lot around.

At least that's how I answered you, Monga. In that context. Downloading or filesharing as a principle - an idea - is something I see as a good thing. No matter if the artist is Devin Townsend or Jessica Simpson...

are you saying jessica simpson is available for download???
Well megabyte her sexy but my way!!!!

oh.. you meant. her.. ahem...(that crap she calls) music

[Blazingmonga]

hey i don't know if it was deliberate 'monga but you missed 7

Yes...deliberate....sure....!!! Phew!