HEVYDEVY FORUMS

I would have put this in the Musicians Corner section, but I want opinions from anyone with teaching experience or advice. Here's some background:

I picked up the guitar at 14, took lessons for a year, didn't ever do what the teacher wanted, and ended up quitting lessons because I thought the teacher was moving too slow. As a result, my guitar playing is sloppier than it should be, I can't read to save my life, and 24 years later, I rarely pick up the guitar anymore, though I still am passionate about the instrument. I get frustrated because I can't play what I hear in my head, but can't stand practicing. I dug myself in a hole because I lacked patience and discipline.

My son is 10 and has always been interested in my guitars, so we bought him a guitar and amp this last Christmas. I haven't showed him much of anything really, because I didn't want to pressure him into playing. I just kind of wanted him to noodle around with it and get comfortable. However, right off the bat he started playing single-string Metallica riffs, getting the notes right, and even tuning the guitar to, as he says, "the notes I hear in my head."

I have tried to show him chords and things to give him some more tools to work with, but he really doesn't seem that interested. He'd rather just fiddle around. Now I am torn. The kid obviously has an ear for music and an urge to play, and I want to encourage that as much as possible. I don't want him to end up like me, sloppy and uneducated. However, if I push him to "learn," I am afraid I will either turn him off, or end up taking this creativity he has and tainting it by forcing structure on it. He has far more natural music ability than I ever had, and I really, really don't want to see it go to waste.

Should I try and force a little structure on him? Or should I just let him keep noodling away? My heart is leaning toward letting him just do it on his own, but at the same time, I would hate for him to get frustrated like me because he does not have the knowledge to play what he hears in his head.

I would appreciate any and all opinions on the matter.

I teach kids to play guitar. However, with the student being your child, it can get a little hairy. Here's how I start:

One: the basics. Major chords and very VERY simple scales, to get their fingers used to moving and positioning. A,C,D and G are the chords I teach first. They're not easy for beginners, but most songs have them. Simple first position scales just to get the fingers used to moving without having to consciously think about it so much. I do mean SIMPLE, and VERY slow. Do it right every time so that when speed comes, it'll be clean.

After some time on that (because kids get bored) I talk to the kids and ask them what they like to listen to. If they name songs that can be played with major/barre chords, I key in on that. I ask them to practice playing the chords and scales on their own time when they want to, and to show me how well they do the next time we practice. When they do, I always point out what they've done right, and mentally note what went wrong, so I can "tweak" them while the next session is going on, so they aren't discouraged.

Now. In the interim of the first to second lesson, I will have researched a couple of songs the kids had mentioned liking. You'd be surprised how easily most songs can be played with major chords. Sure, when I was teaching girls, it turned out to be Disney songs...but it worked. I'd prep the material to teach them simple chords progressions to play along with the song. Then, I'd work with them on one song, get to the point to where they would get frustrated or whatever, go back to the major chords and/or scales, and then a second song to learn. Whichever was more successful would be their "homework" to play when they felt like.

This method of <establish - build upon - revisit > worked pretty well for me. I hope it gives you some help.

^ That's pretty much exactly how my lessons were like (I also started around age 10), and it was always fun for me like that. It's important to let your kid play what they want to play, but it shouldn't be without any 'theory' behind it (basic chords/scales). It helps with 'reading' songs and eventually will help to figure out songs on his own, and later possibly write his own.

Letting him figure things out on his own without any guidance or structure will inevitably lead to him reaching some sort of ceiling, which his own talent and self-taught skills cannot help him break through. I believe a proper base like chords and scales are pretty much what you need to improve your playing, even if merely for practicing exercises. Also, knowing the conventions doesn't mean you can no longer break through them so I wouldn't worry about limiting his creativity.

I don't know whether you had a private teacher or were taught in a group, but I'd recommend a private tutor. Partially because of my own experience, but also because everybody plays a little differently, learns at a different pace or simply dislikes playing what another in the group loves to play. And, no offense, but by the way you describe your own playing I doubt you should be the one teaching your kid. It really motivated me to have a teacher who was patient and took the time when teaching new or difficult things, but at the same time could play some immense things while I was playing a simple 3-chord blues pattern. Kind of like "whoa, I want to be able to play like that!". You seem insecure about your own level of playing and I'm pretty sure your son can pick up on that, probably thinking that maybe there's not so much you can teach him. Again, no offense, that's just how I'm reading it.

Also, if you always were considering an outside private tutor then please disregard that last part.

Like Swerved said, lessons from a qualified/skilled/experienced guitar teacher would seem to be your best bet. I'm sure they see the situation of your son all the time, great enthusiasm and perhaps talent, but short attention spans and little interest in learning the theoretical part. They'll probably know how to deal with it

The only issue there is we live in a small hick town with no private instructors available. The only real lessons available are classical through the school, and he has absolutely no interest in that.

I'm not a hack by any means, but I was never overly refined, and am now definitely rusty. I took lessons from a private teacher and hated it. Mainly because I wanted to play VH, Rush, and Metallica, and he was teaching me Bryan Adams and Boston. I tried to stick with it, but it was killing me. There was a lot of "This is how you play it." And I would be like "Why can't I play it like this. Isn't it the same?" "Well, it may sound the same, but that's now how you are supposed to play it."

I remember Eddie Van Halen saying something once that really hit home for me, which was something like "If you learn to do things by the book, you never learn to go beyond the book." I know that statement is not true, but for me, that is what it always kind of felt like. When I learned the "proper" way, I had much more difficult time transitioning from how I felt to what I played, because I started over-thinking it. Then again, my son and I are both known to over-think everything. lol

Like any dad, I want my son to have every advantage I didn't have, and any chance I can I want to put him on the right path. I believe I can teach him adequately, I'm just afraid of somehow stifling his creativity and discouraging him.

The advice so far has been extremely helpful. Thanks so much, guys. If we had a better teacher around, that would be my first choice. However, for the moment, it is just me. I'll happily take any and all advice I can get. That way, if he turns up as screwed up as I am, I can blame all of you.

Sounds like you didn't have the best teacher for what you wanted to learn then.
My guitar teacher makes a point of helping you to learn songs that you're interested in. I'm learning some Opeth at the moment, which is a hell of a lot more interesting to me than Bryan Adams!

I think the key is to find a guitar teacher that "gets" the kind of music you want to play, what you like about it and why, but also helps stop you from getting stuck in a rut of just playing the same bands you're already familiar with. My guitar teacher doesn't have the exact same taste as me, but he understands the music I'm interested in, and is familiar with quite a lot of it. (He's quite into Steve Vai, so was already familiar with Devin Townsend's work, which was a bonus)

I think you should try to show him how he can use those tools, you taught or can teach him, to get that stuff he hears in his head out from there.

I don't have experience as a teacher but when my friend taught me guitar, he always said how or why the thing he taught is useful in getting stuff out of your head.

Like when I learned about blues scales, I suddenly got those bluesy licks, that I hear every time I listen to blues, out of my head

"Well, it may sound the same, but that's now how you are supposed to play it."

I don't like that. If a kid found a way to play something their way, I'd ask them to show me how they did it, and see what the process was. Then I'd show them the "proper" way and explain why it was that way. I'd ask them to try it a few times. I'd leave it up to them to decide how they wanted to play it from then on.

djskrimp wrote:"Well, it may sound the same, but that's now how you are supposed to play it."

I don't like that. If a kid found a way to play something their way, I'd ask them to show me how they did it, and see what the process was. Then I'd show them the "proper" way and explain why it was that way. I'd ask them to try it a few times. I'd leave it up to them to decide how they wanted to play it from then on.

That makes a lot of sense. It encourages exploration and individuality while providing a foundation and education. That is awesome. I think I found my approach! Thanks so, so much!

ppinkham wrote:

djskrimp wrote:"Well, it may sound the same, but that's now how you are supposed to play it."

I don't like that. If a kid found a way to play something their way, I'd ask them to show me how they did it, and see what the process was. Then I'd show them the "proper" way and explain why it was that way. I'd ask them to try it a few times. I'd leave it up to them to decide how they wanted to play it from then on.

That makes a lot of sense. It encourages exploration and individuality while providing a foundation and education. That is awesome. I think I found my approach! Thanks so, so much!

Music must be created, not constructed. Good luck to you!

(and if your child never really develops a hankering for it, just support them in what eventually they do love. The dividends paid to that effort are immeasurable.)

djskrimp wrote:Music must be created, not constructed. Good luck to you!

Actually I like the "construction" analogy. This is how I imagine making proper music somehow, building soild construction of sounds.

/offtopic and pointless

BrunoN wrote:

djskrimp wrote:Music must be created, not constructed. Good luck to you!

Actually I like the "construction" analogy. This is how I imagine making proper music somehow, building soild construction of sounds.

/offtopic and pointless

I agree completely; this is how a musician makes a song. They construct it. However, in order to construct the song, they have to find inspiration to create the song in the first place. Having the building blocks with the inspiration isn't music, to me. Or, I could just fuck off..