HEVYDEVY FORUMS

People I look up to say it's impolite to question somebody's faith. But sometimes I wonder, why do people believe what they believe? A long time ago I realised that religion was just a mortal way of dealing with death, believing the implausible in order to comfort oneself at a time of hardship.

But sometimes you have to ask yourself, whyever would you put your material existance in the present ahead of a life nobody can be absolutely sure of? If everyone's so certain God exists why do we even care about life?

Personally, I'm Agnostic, swinging slightly towards Athiesm. I don't believe there's enough evidence to suggest God exists or not, but my mind tells me it's illogical.

Views, discussions, arguments?

I'll take a swing:

I am atheist, but I hate it. I want to believe in a higher power and an afterlife. I want to believe that my existence will extend beyond Earth and for there to be a point to all this when my shell ceases to function. I want to believe that in my life, all the things I do have a consequence for when I am dead, and my life will be judged accordingly. I want the solace and hope of knowing that there is a supreme being that watches over all our lives, and is benevolent and kind and loving.

I do not.

Since I can't, I choose to live my life according to this simple idea: When I die, it will be over, and there will be nothing I can do after that point to change things. So, I try to be fair now. I try to live justly now, not to get to heaven, but because I feel as though I won't have a second chance to fix it. I live for the now. I do things when I think about them, because opportunities fly away like so much sand, quickly through my fingers. 17 became 20 became 24 became 27 became 30 became 34 will become 35 will become 40......

It depresses me to think this way. I hate that I don't look to the sky and see a smiling father. A loving mother. I want to, but I can't.

I wish I could share in the joy in a religion, but I'd be lying, and I can't afford to waste the time.

I am atheist, and I like it.

Here's a brilliant interview video featuring the atheist philosopher Daniel Dennett, which should be mandatory for EVERYBODY. WATCH IT:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 2168820605

I believe religion is evil, and the cause of 95% of all deaths and wars on the planet. The only religion I respect is Budhism, because of the respect and care they give to all living things.
Christianity in my opnion, is nothing more than controlling and brainwashing people. Ever since the creation of Christianity, it has always been the one religion with the biggest budget and the richest people leading it. As long as you tell the 'dumber working class' that God watches everything you do, and you have to follow everything he says, or what has been written in the bible, they will stay obedient and won't question their life or jobs.
I am a realist, and if I only think about someone living in an unknown, invisible place watching everything people do and making a list of ten things that we are not allowed to do, I frown and give a little giggle.
The 10 commandments are ignored almost daily, most of the times by the so-called 'good Christians'. The other day I hear a precher say on television, that he believes the world is only 600 years old, and that dinosaur fossils are put on earth by God to test the faith of humans. Okay, what a dumbass I think. Few days later I find out that Mr. George W. Bush also stands behind these believes, and he is supposed to be the leader of the free world.
Ofcourse now I've only talked about Christianity, but this is because it's the only religion I know a little bit off. I was raised a Christian until I reached the age of reason, probably around 14 years old. I thought: this is bullshit, humans and animals are organs, blood, muscles and tissue. There is no soul, there is no God, only reason and science.

Its all about richard dawkins setting the record straight. Indoctrination is a damaging process adults labeling children with their own beliefs is sick & wrong. How somebody can base their life on a trend in their geographical location is beyond me.

Saying that i have a knack for theosophy too, but thats more an interest.

Up until 2005 I did go to church pretty regularly with my, now, ex-wife. I always found myself questioning and doubting. I don't think I ever quite "Got" it. I went mainly to appease the Mrs. I will say that there were some life lessons that helped me out in particularly difficult situations that I was able to latch on to.

I always found myself very envious of those who were so steadfast in their beliefs. To look around and see the people in attendance so completely absorbed in what they were being taught or preached to. They had the faith of their beliefs and no one could tell them any differently. They will tell you that without question God exists and that Jesus died for their sins.

People may think it's a bunch of hooey. People will naysay. A true believer is a force to be reckoned with because nothing you say or do will convince them anything outside of that what they so firmly trust & believe.

djskrimp wrote:I'll take a swing:

I am atheist, but I hate it. I want to believe in a higher power and an afterlife. I want to believe that my existence will extend beyond Earth and for there to be a point to all this when my shell ceases to function. I want to believe that in my life, all the things I do have a consequence for when I am dead, and my life will be judged accordingly. I want the solace and hope of knowing that there is a supreme being that watches over all our lives, and is benevolent and kind and loving.

I do not.

Since I can't, I choose to live my life according to this simple idea: When I die, it will be over, and there will be nothing I can do after that point to change things. So, I try to be fair now. I try to live justly now, not to get to heaven, but because I feel as though I won't have a second chance to fix it. I live for the now. I do things when I think about them, because opportunities fly away like so much sand, quickly through my fingers. 17 became 20 became 24 became 27 became 30 became 34 will become 35 will become 40......

It depresses me to think this way. I hate that I don't look to the sky and see a smiling father. A loving mother. I want to, but I can't.

I wish I could share in the joy in a religion, but I'd be lying, and I can't afford to waste the time.

well, that pretty much sums it up. I'm atheist myself. In a way I admire people for believing in life after death because they are definitely not as scared of death as I am. I think when I'm dead, I'm dead. Like a flower...when it's gone, it's gone.
The idea of having a soul and then moving to a new life after you die is nice...but who decided that we have a soul? God? I think human beings were the ones that came up with that idea. And it's just that...an idea. There is no proof for it. To be fair, there of course also is no proof against it. But personally I don't think that we have any other fate than a dog and a horse have when they die. As much as I hate it, anything else would just not make sense.

As for religion itself. Well, it can be good and it can be bad as many things. I don't want to generally condemn something and put people down because they believe in something that I don't believe in because then I would be like the people that I'm against which would be rather hypocritical. Like those die-hard satanists. You gotta believe in Satan, don't be christian, don't be gay, respect the laws of nature, blah blah blah...I personally don't see any difference between them and the Pope yet they claim to be so much different and better, ya know? But that's a different story. I guess what I'm trying to say is, religion can be used and abused. I don't mind the use but I'm against the abuse.

1. I believed.
2. I didn't believe anymore.
3. I thought all religions were the same boring bullshit.
4. I listened metal and like my tr00-satanic-kvlt idols I became an "enemy" of christianity
5. I didn't care anymore how "tr00" I were.
6. I noticed the good sides in religions.
7. I started to envy religious people because I fear death.
8. I walked outside from church and took my money with me because I don't want to be part of organised religion. I hate nominal christians.

What next?

On a global scale all religions are bad because they teach you this hollywoodish black and white image of good and evil.

I do believe there is a spiritual world that co-exists in and amongst ours. Things we can't explain. I don't really call it God's work, so in that sense I'm not a religious person. I am definately a spiritual person though.

I've had a few weird things happen to me that can't be explained by physics or any law of science, and all that stuff belongs in the spiritual world, which to me is like a world without any form of logic. Human logic anyways.

Zyprexa wrote:But sometimes you have to ask yourself, whyever would you put your material existance in the present ahead of a life nobody can be absolutely sure of? If everyone's so certain God exists why do we even care about life?

Probably because they aren't agnostic, they are absolutely sure of it

I believe religion is evil, and the cause of 95% of all deaths and wars on the planet.

I disagree. Religion is just a useful tool to pit humans against one another. I'm sure we'd find other things to fight over if it wasn't there. And there are plenty of people who still follow the 10 Commandments, you just don't hear about them because only raving lunatics are interesting enough for the news.

My point of view is that religion should just be a private thing and organized religion is bad. Imo if there is a God it's probably something that doesn't care about humanity and that humans don't understand.

I'd describe myself as agnostic.

Although I'm largely sceptical, I can potentially believe that a higher power exists, but if it does I'm certain that none of the major religions has it spot on, and it's probably beyond anything I'd understand.

What I always find hard to understand is not those that believe adamantly in a god/gods, but those that are so certain that their religion is the truth. Now I'd never criticise others for their religious beliefs, it's entirely personal, but the thing that alway gets me is that there are all these different religions with different beliefs, and none of them has any more evidence than the other. So I can never understand how all these people can be so certain that their religion has it right. And I suppose that is where I have a problem with some religious people. It is that vertainty without anything to back it up that sees people trying to push their religion on to me (again, just some, not all) I always wonder how people are able to believe in anything when they don't have any doubt in their mind, like they've never weighed up any other possibility. Surely without doubt, it's not really faith?

Ultimately, I think that if there's any God that places my belief in them above the way I have lived my life and treated other people then they are not worthy of my worship anyway. I couldn't care less what someone believes as long as they try their best to treat people right!

the_scoon wrote:I've had a few weird things happen to me that can't be explained by physics or any law of science, and all that stuff belongs in the spiritual world, which to me is like a world without any form of logic. Human logic anyways.

On a side not, I always find it out how so many people seem to think of religion and science as such disparate ideas, to me they are very much linked in terms of seeking some meaning to our world.

I believe there is some lovely entity that strings everyone and everything together. I don't like to call it God because not only would that subscribe me to religion, but giving it a name, putting a word on it, would be a futile attempt at bending it to my will. I also believe that everyone that happens within the universe happens for some reason, whether it be immediate or otherwise, but there is no ultimate "meaning" for the universe. It just is, and that's the beauty of it, and that is it's meaning.

So there ya go.

Why would anything happen for a reason? If there is no meaning, there should be no reason, in my opnion. This makes some people sad or hopeless in some way. I don't understand that; why not just live your life to the fullest, do what your want, and then die with a smile on your face, because you had a great life. All this pondering if there is a God or if there is a reason to any of this is pointless. There will NEVER be an answer and it takes up your precious time you could be enjoying yourself.
All religions or beliefs are based on faith; this is why people in a certain religion think they have the answer; they believe this 100%, faith. You could come up with the weirdest beliefs, gather a group of people, and you can call it a religion, like scientology... wtf...

[youtube]8uBAPbOWLxc[/youtube]

This kinda sums up my feelings about religion.

I am fully aware that not everybody will agree with my views, and I'm open to any challenges. If somebody can convince me to change my mind about something I'll admit my .. perhaps .. misconceptions and do so immediately. Just before I comment on the rather impressive statements already made on this thread.

Tren wrote:Its all about richard dawkins setting the record straight.

No, I don't like Richard Dawkins at all. He once said that if you have a faith you're insane. And I've never once heard him come up with a convincing argument to say God doesn't exist. I think it's good for children to be brought up with a faith, but it's their own decision whether or not they carry it on when they come to understand the world. This can be a very hard place to live in and sometimes I understand that people need something deeper. Dawkins is blatently intolerant of religion while never being able to adequately explain why.

Noodles wrote:

Zyprexa wrote:But sometimes you have to ask yourself, whyever would you put your material existance in the present ahead of a life nobody can be absolutely sure of? If everyone's so certain God exists why do we even care about life?

Probably because they aren't agnostic, they are absolutely sure of it

But I can't comprehend how anyone can be absolutely sure of something they can't see and something which apparently rules over the world but yet lets wars and global warming and racism and violence co-exist with good people being affected as well as bad. People often tell me 'Think of a beautiful flower, a new baby. Now tell me something greater than you didn't create that.' And I say 'Think of a slug, eating the flower. Think of the new baby in Africa with a disease in its eye, making it go blind, and its parents knowing it will be impossible to feed. And tell me your God didn't create that slug, that parasite.'

Archetype wrote:I believe religion is evil, and the cause of 95% of all deaths and wars on the planet.

It's not really essentially evil. But fundamentalists (emphasis on the 'mental') have blown it out of all proportions. Muslims are particularly bad on this count. I mean, their 'blow up a street and everyone on it' policy is disgusting. Makes me want to get sick all over Sufi Muslims. And I love the principals of all religions, their desire to keep the masses in line, but this just went way out of hand. I mean, blowing someone else up so you become a 'martyr' and go to heaven? It's disgusting. The key is tolerance, acceptance that we're not all clones, thus we couldn't possibly all believe the same thing. As well as understanding that if somebody has a different religion to yours, they're not trying to defy Allah or God or Sidhartha Guatama (sp?), they're merely setting their own path of righteousness based on what somebody else said. What sickens me most is that all religions are essential the same principal, namely the 'Do unto others' idea.

Noodles wrote:I disagree. Religion is just a useful tool to pit humans against one another. I'm sure we'd find other things to fight over if it wasn't there. And there are plenty of people who still follow the 10 Commandments, you just don't hear about them because only raving lunatics are interesting enough for the news.

And as well, I'm sure most people know morally that it's wrong to steal (on a grand scale anyway), it's wrong to murder. And it's human nature to want something someone else has, so God can fuck right off on that count. But a lot of the other commandments are well outdated. I think honour thy father and mother was stuck in there to scare kiddies. I treat them equally to everybody else, I don't believe anybody is worthy of being placed above anyone.

Noodles wrote:My point of view is that religion should just be a private thing and organized religion is bad. Imo if there is a God it's probably something that doesn't care about humanity and that humans don't understand.

Yeah, organized religion has proven to be a global money-grabbing scheme. But I just don't feel the need to believe in a God, why should I think there's a higher power than humans? It's like celebrities, I have no time for them and their 'Look how great I am'-ism. I'm probably better than them in more ways than they could imagine, and I could easily become famous, I just really don't want that. Anyone could. Why should we look up to them? And give celebrities some credit, they're material things that we can actually see. And they're not definitely white men, unlike a certain God the Catholic Church like to portray.

the_scoon wrote:I do believe there is a spiritual world that co-exists in and amongst ours. Things we can't explain. I don't really call it God's work, so in that sense I'm not a religious person. I am definately a spiritual person though.

Being spiritual is logical. You create your own rules and boundaries as to what you believe in. Being devoutly religious, I feel, is being a sheep. You're going along with something that somebody told you to believe. I couldn't find solstice in an idea that another mortal conjured up for their own comfort.

Kivenkantaja wrote:7. I started to envy religious people because I fear death.

Why fear death? I like to think there's no higher power, that when we die we go into what seems like an eternal dream. You know that thing people do where you crouch down and take thirty really heavy breaths, then you stand up quickly and somebody presses on your chest cavity and your oxygen is momentarily cut off so you faint? You have a dream that goes on for what seems like an eternity and then you wake up and everybody is still standing around you, it's been around a second. I think we might go on dreaming like that when we die. Then other times I think we may end up as a dreamless, thoughtless, decaying corpse under the ground. It barely fazes me. I love the life I have, and have come to accept that death merely signifies the conclusion of it. All good things must come to an end.

as a jehovah's witness myself, I personally believe everything that the bible says. due to the fact that the book accurately, to the date, predicts world war 1 and it's outcome, how everything rose to a monumental peak in 1914 and has gotten worse ever since. people will argue against matthew chapter 24 and say that earthquakes and hurricanes have been around forever, but it's hard to argue against the fact that they have never been on this scale. others believe it to be us polluting the earth, but in all honesty, most of this "CO2 emissions are damaging the earth!" stuff is a load of crap to make earth a more pleasant place. of course the ozone layer is wearing off, but it's not doing much else other than making beaches a higher risk of cancer.
millions of people, even athiests have stated that if everyone followed the bible then the world would be an insanely nice place. but personally, I agree with most of your comments. christendom for one has done nothing in my eyes but meddle in politics and misinterpret accounts in the bible, to the point where it contradicts itself countless times. for example, the word "Trinity" does not appear in the bible at all, in fact, john 17:3, or 3:17, one of those two, but either way, that deals with the fact that god sent his only begotten son down to earth to die. now if god were linked with his son in a whole kind of unison way, then how could god ressurrect himself if he was dead? the only way that could happen is if he didn't die, in which there would be no need for a ressurrection.
I could go on forever about why I feel that what I believe stands as the truth, but I'm not here to change anyone's opinions at the moment, although I do suggest that next time we come a-knocking you have a listen =D.